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Farid wrote:
Salaam,
Salam
Farid wrote:
Ahmed I will quickly quote you to pick up the pace here. "If you want a reason then fine, that is enough of a reason, i.e. it is not commanded by Allah to follow from the first place "Ok, then let it be it, as for me, I choose to listen to the prophet, though I wish to be careful of some.
I am the one who is listening to the prophet through the Quran, you are shirking what you should listen with some man made crap that you never heard from the prophet from the first place, i.e. you are a Mushrik
Farid wrote:
Dear Ahmed, you quote a Quranic verse,
"Or have they associates who have prescribed for them in the religion that Allah does not sanction? And were it not for the word of judgment, decision would have certainly been given between them; and surely the unjust shall have a painful punishment.
[The Quran ; 42:21] "
Are you saying that listening to the prophet is religion not sanctioned by Allah(swt)?
Again, you are not listening to the prophet as to what he said in the Quran which is confirmed by Allah, that is what Mohammed should have said, you are listening to a bunch of idol worshippers who desire to make Mohammed an Idol, EXACTLY like the Christians
Farid wrote:
Ahmed, I will stop replying to most of your statements because it is a wish of mine for this thread to be a little more fruitful. Therefore, I wish to put forward a subject that we can focus on and I believe the subject to be of much importance in this talk.
Of course you have to retreat, you hardly answered all my arguments, you only selected what you may have an answer for, the rest you just ignored, but fine with me
Here is a few subjects that we may discuss, you need to prove to me 5 things, USING THE QURAN ALONE:
1) That Allah ordained the Shahada on us
2) The Allah ordained the hadith of Bukhari and others on US
3) That the adulterers should be stoned to death if they are married
4) That the Ex Muslims should be killed when they leave Islam
5) That we should shorten the prayers if we travel more than 80 KM
Your call
Farid wrote:
The subject is the authencity of the hadith. If the hadith are not authentic, then why should I believe it? If they are authentic, then why wont you believe it?
You cannot prove that any hearsay is authentic, this is the deluded world you are happily living with Satan
Farid wrote:
I do hope we are in agreement here.
Absolutely not
Farid wrote:
Let us start our discussion.
Yeh let's start talking about the 5 subjects I listed above, you may chose one and start presenting your argument, then when we finish we move on to the next item
Farid wrote:
I have already told you about the student of Abu Hurairah,
And I have already told you that Abu Hurairah and all his students must be dismissed by me UNCONDIONALLY
Farid wrote:
but you went off swearing at Abu Hurairah.
Because according to your man made hadith, he lied about the prophet many times, he stole from the money of the Muslims and he insulted the suppose to be his mother (Aysha).
He is nothing but a conman
Farid wrote:
Dear Ahmed, my point has nothing to do with Abu Hurairah, my point was the effectiveness of the method used in Sahih Bukhari.
So why you mentioned another associate of your many associates if you only want to talk about one associate (Bukhari)?
Farid wrote:
Taking this in mind, we can see that the method was indeed effective, but I am not saying that this will be the case for every hadith.
So, we have no standards to follow and be united upon, because they never did your effective authentication crap over all the hadith, i.e. they were confused themselves and consequently they confused the whole Ummah after them.
Farid wrote:
I understand you rejecting some ahadith,
I reject all WRITTEN hadith
Again, the hadith should have been memorised, let's have a look at this hadith:
Al Abbas Ibn Abdul Azim Al Anbaray <-- Abdul Alrazzaq <-- Moamir <-- Ibn Tawoos <-- Ibn Tawoos Father <-- that Ibn Abbas said:
The saying of Ibn Abbas goes like this:
We were memorising the hadith and the hadith of Rasool Allah salla Allah alayhi wa sallam should be memorised, but if you ride difficulties and hardship then far, far away
-> See, the prophet said absolutely nothing, it was a saying by Ibn Abbas, and it is alleged that he said the HADITH OF RASOOL ALLAH (salla Allah alayhi wa sallam) SHOULD BE MEMORISED, this means it should not be written in a book exactly as the prophet advised them many times as Ahmed Ibn Hanbal recorded in his hearsay book, not to write anything the prophet said but the Quran.
Now I wonder, why a hadith like that is included in a book that is called Sunan Ibn Magih? what sunnah in there exactly?, and the sunnah of whom?
Is it the sunnah of the Prophet?
Is it the sunnah of Ibn Abbas?
Or
Is it the sunnah of Ibn Magih?
Sounds like it has nothing to do with the sunnah of anyone really rather an alleged historical incident between a few guys having a chit chat. But even if the hadith worshippers want to make it a sunnah, then the sunnah in there is simply that the HADITH SHOULD HAVE BEEN MEMORISED AND NOT WRITTEN IN A BOOK.
Farid wrote:
but if they are based on your emotions,
Read our debate again and you should recognise that it is you who is basing it on emotions, we have already a kafir who stated that I am more rational than you are, he even stated that you may have no chance, I am the one who is presenting evidences and walking you through it, you almost did nothing to reply to my evidences other than, saying: I SHOULD FOLLOW THE AUTHENTIC HADITH.
Yet you failed to show me why according to Alllah, that you should follow the so called authentic hadith, that is your main hurdle btw, I honestly believe that you will fail to pass it.
Farid wrote:
then I do not take it that as valid evidence.
Come on, give me a break, will ya?
I am the one who is presenting plenty of evidences in every comment I make, and you never replied to it, you are so confused to even suggest that I may be lazy, while everyone can see that the lazy bum is you, sorry
Farid wrote:
Saying Muhammad(pbuh) would never do that while you do not really know will not be evidence.
Of course, I know, I know from Allah that a messenger of Allah that was described by Allah as a messenger of sublime morality, will never go around sleeping with so many women and while not having a bath in between.
Farid wrote:
Now I do not feel the need to explain to you the science of hadith, I believe you know it already. But in case you do not, there are many books and sites you can visit to learn about it, try google.com and you should find alot.
Of course I know about all these sites, and I have many books too, but I want to see your own explanation to it, what I found in these books and sites has absolutely nothing to do with science, possibly you may shed something that I missed and show me how scientific what you call science of hadith is?
Farid wrote:
After you have studied the science of hadith, you can approach me with some questions if you would like.
Come on, you can consider me a non Muslim who wants to fully understand what you call science of hadith, in brief terms, you need not to go in details.
Farid wrote:
Dear Ahmed, do not approach me saying that we can not know 100% the heart of the transmitters, no dear Ahmed, we hardly know 100% if we even exist, let alone knowing the heart of a man we have never met.
What the hell was that?
So you agree totally with me that we cannot know 100% what is inside any human. From the religious point of view of course, I did not mean everything.
Farid wrote:
Dear Ahmed, please provide evidence that I should reject ahadith. And I will do my best to provide evidence to accept most of the ahadith.
Thank you.
Well, I will provide in my next comment inshaallah the evidences that the Quran should be the only book that we should seek guidance from, your man made hadith was never mentioned in the Quran.
On the other hand you also need to provide to me evidences from the Quran that I should seek guidance from the Quran and your man made books of hadith that were invented 200 years after the completion of the Quran
Salam
Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Mon 22 Dec, 2008 10:39 pm; edited 1 time in total
Posted:
Mon 22 Dec, 2008 7:39 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
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BMZ wrote:
That is why, Ahmed, when I discuss with Ulema and scholars, I tell them that Islam does not need reformation.
Hadith Collections need to be reformed.
Salam mate
Even with a reformed books of man made hadith, such books can never be a source of laws next to the laws of Allah
They need to reform it as well classify it that it is no more than a historical record that has been authenticated and confirmed by the Quran
BMZ wrote:
All the junk and stuff should be removed and only the beautiful genuine sayings of the Prophet should be kept.
The beautiful sayings of Mohammed, are in the Quran, hundreds of it, Say, Say, Say, Say
what you read in such man made books can not be called the sayings of Mohammed, rather the alleged sayings of Mohammed.
BMZ wrote:
All Ibns like Ibn Hisham types should be struck off.
Salaams
BMZ
Indeed, all these sirah books are nothing but episodes of Jerry Springer crap but in the old days
Salam mate
Posted:
Mon 22 Dec, 2008 7:43 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
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Salam All,
This comment is going to be a very long one that is split in two comments, so you have been warned in advance, any rants that it is long, will be dismissed
The comment is directed at Farid specifically and at all the FFI goons in general, so all your comments will be considered as long as they are merited and as long as you are not registered in the Life Dismissal list.
I wrote this about 4 years ago and it was about 8 pages, today I added more info to it which became 16 pages.
The hearsay hadith advocates really missed the plot, they are trying to force all the hadith posted in the two Sahih as Sharia laws that has to be believed in and implemented by all Muslims otherwise they will be labelled kafiroon, the problem for them though that Allah never told us as such, He never even stressed any importance to such hearsay hadith, in fact the prophet hadith was mentioned in the Quran only once, in 33:53 where it was a warning to the people against seeking the prophet hadith after they have been fed in his house,
Such man made hearsay written books of hadith may be sharia laws but only if we shirk its laws with the laws of the Quran, i.e. all books (the Quran and the books of man made hadith) are bundled together as one Sharia from God, This is what Al Mushrikoon are doing for 1200 years. When you hear a so called Muslim saying, Quran & Hadith, then you should know that you are talking to a Mushrik, who is still a believer in Allah, but while shirking.
If the books of man made hadith are that important that it has to be shirked with the book of Allah then the Quran should have praise such man made hadith books as it did with the Book of Allah.
What the Quran said though is straightforward and clear, our only source of sharia is the Quran, the prophet hadith should only be considered mere teachings from a great man, while only been ORAL, the hadith should have never made it into a book next to the book of Allah,, it is definitely the worst sin to consider the human words equivalent to the God's words and that is exactly what the majority of the sectarian Muslims are doing for so many years.
Let's see what Allah said about His Quran, we will see clearly that there is nothing like the words of Allah, we will also see that the Quran was designed to be easy for remembrance, Allah is responsible for collecting it, guarding it and explaining it, and because it was planned to be the last warning before the Judgment Day, Allah has included all types or parables (that will help us in this tough test) in it :
And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to remember: then is there any that will receive admonition? [The Quran , 54: 17 ; 22 ; 32 ; 40 ]
وَلَقَدْ يَسَّرْنَا الْقُرْآنَ لِلذِّكْرِ فَهَلْ مِن مُّدَّكِرٍ (17)
-> In sura no. 54 the Quran repeated this sentence four times in verses 17,22,32,40, indeed Allah has made the Quran easy to remember :And We have indeed made the Qur'an easy to remember, then He is reminding us :then is there any that will receive admonition?, obviously four times to be mentioned in the same sura highlights the importance of this piece of information..
Do the books of hadith are made easy for remembrance?, of course not, that is why they needed tens and tens of other books to explain it..
Verily, We have made this (Qur'an) easy, in thy tongue, in order that they may give heed. [The Quran , 44:58]
فَإِنَّمَا يَسَّرْنَاهُ بِلِسَانِكَ لَعَلَّهُمْ يَتَذَكَّرُونَ (58)
-> Another verse which confirms that Allah has made the Quran easy on Mohammad tongue, despite Mohammad lacked the knowledge of reading and writing:Verily, We have made this (Qur'an) easy, in thy tongue, so the prophet will deliver the Quran to :, in order that they may give heed., so we can understand that the Quran was the only source used by the prophet to deliver Allah message. i.e. being made easy on his tongue, it means that he was should have always been talking Quran to the people so they may give heed and remember..
So have We made the (Qur'an) easy in thine own tongue, that with it thou mayest give Glad Tidings to the righteous, and warnings to people given to contention. [The Quran , 19:97]
فَإِنَّمَا يَسَّرْنَاهُ بِلِسَانِكَ لِتُبَشِّرَ بِهِ الْمُتَّقِينَ وَتُنذِرَ بِهِ قَوْمًا لُّدًّا (97)
-> Same info in this verse regarding the prophet memorising and understanding the Quran: So have We made the (Qur'an) easy in thine own tongue, then the prophet will use the Quran to :that with it thou mayest give Glad Tidings to the righteous, and warnings to people given to contention., again, the verse implies that Mohammed was talking Quran only to satisfy his duties of warning the kafirs and giving glad tidings to the believers.
We never read in the above two verses that Mohammed own hadith was made easy on his tongue nor easy on others, nor he was required to use it to warn the kafirs and give glad tidings to the believers.
And indeed We have brought to them a Book which We have explained with knowledge, a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe. [The Quran , 7:52]
وَلَقَدْ جِئْنَاهُم بِكِتَابٍ فَصَّلْنَاهُ عَلَى عِلْمٍ هُدًى وَرَحْمَةً لِّقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ (52)
-> In this verse it is clear that Allah sent us the Quran, as well Allah explained it in details because it is the guidance and mercy to all believers: And indeed We have brought to them a Book which We have explained with knowledge, a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe., clear as light that Allah explained His book, which logically means it is explained within itself , i.e. the Quran explains itself. As well, many other verses were explained by the prophet as inspired by Allah, i.e. if we will be concerned about any written hadith as a mere history fact then it has to be related to the Quran one way or another and it must not contradict the Quran in any other location.
Now if you look at the crap of hadith by Bukhari where it is alleged that Aysha said that the prophet married her when she was 6 and consumed the marriage when she was 9, cannot be related to the Quran in any way, it is not even something that the prophet have said for God sake. Or even the hadith by others who were chatting about the allegation that the prophet
Then what HADITH, after the Quran, will they believe in? [The Quran , 77:50]
فَبِأَيِّ حَدِيثٍ بَعْدَهُ يُؤْمِنُونَ (50)
-> This is an important verse, as it shows us that Allah is asking what other HADITH than the Quran will make people believe?, sure NONE, including the alleged hadith of prophet Mohammad and even the alleged hadith Qudsi as well, the Arabic word used to describe the Quran was HADITHthe same word we use for the alleged prophet sayings, because the Arabic word HADITHmeans TALKor SPEECH, so we have 2 different Hadiths:
A) Hadith by Allah The Quran
B) Hadith by Mohammad The alleged Prophet sayings
It is very easy to find the major differences between them:
A) Is by Allah The Creator, reserved by Allah The Authorand never been changed.
B) Is ALLEGED to be by Mohammad A Human, never been reserved accurately, and many fabricated ones by the enemy of Islam have been invented and added to it.
Does any believer fail to recognise which hadith of the above is Holy and which is not?
Those who conceal what We have sent down from the signs and the guidance after We have explained it to the people in the Book, these are the ones whom Allah shall curse, and those who curse shall curse them. [The Quran , 2:159]
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَكْتُمُونَ مَا أَنزَلْنَا مِنَ الْبَيِّنَاتِ وَالْهُدَى مِن بَعْدِ مَا بَيَّنَّاهُ لِلنَّاسِ فِي الْكِتَابِ أُولَئِكَ يَلعَنُهُمُ اللّهُ وَيَلْعَنُهُمُ اللَّاعِنُونَ (159)
-> In here we can see, Allah is warning the people who conceal hidethe guidance after He explained His guidance in the Quran: Those who conceal what We have sent down from the signs and the guidance after We have explained it to the people in the Book, and the punishment is : these are the ones whom Allah shall curse, and those who curse shall curse them. , it is clear that Allah is telling us tat all the guidance is explained in the Quran. after We have explained it to the people in the Book , i.e. the Quran explains itself.
And this is a Book We have sent down, (which is) blessed; therefore follow it and fear (Allah) so that you may receive mercy. [The Quran , 6:155]
وَهَذَا كِتَابٌ أَنزَلْنَاهُ مُبَارَكٌ فَاتَّبِعُوهُ وَاتَّقُواْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُرْحَمُونَ (155)
-> Allah is telling us in this verse that the Quran is a blessing and WE MUST FOLLOW IT: And this is a Book We have sent down, (which is) blessed; therefore follow it and fear (Allah),, and for the people who will follow it: so that you may receive mercy. , Allah never told us to follow the alleged hadith of Mohammad, because the alleged hadith of Mohammad even if true is nothing but mere teachings from a great man that can never be compared to the teachings of Allah in His Quran.
2- A Book sent down to you, so let there be not in your breast distress from it, that you may warn thereby, and a reminder to the believers.
3- Follow what has been sent down to you from your Lord and do not follow other than Him any guardians, little that you remember. [The Quran , 7:2-3]
كِتَابٌ أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكَ فَلاَ يَكُن فِي صَدْرِكَ حَرَجٌ مِّنْهُ لِتُنذِرَ بِهِ وَذِكْرَى لِلْمُؤْمِنِينَ (2)
اتَّبِعُواْ مَا أُنزِلَ إِلَيْكُم مِّن رَّبِّكُمْ وَلاَ تَتَّبِعُواْ مِن دُونِهِ أَوْلِيَاء قَلِيلاً مَّا تَذَكَّرُونَ (3)
-> In these 2 verses we have a clear message from Allah that He sent the Quran and the prophet should not be hesitant to warn the people using it TO WARN AND TEACH THE BELIEVERS: A Book sent down to you, so let there be not in your breast distress from it, that you may warn thereby, and a reminder to the believers. . This is very important note, because if the Quran is what the prophet have used to teach and warn THE BELIVERS, then Allah is telling us to follow the Quran and NEVER TAKE ANY ONE WHATSOEVER to follow other than Allah: Follow what has been sent down to you from your Lord and do not follow other than Him any guardians, little that you remember. , a very strong message to use the Quran as the only source of divine laws,, some may think that 7:3 conflicts with all the other verses where Allah told us to follow His prophet, while in here it says only to follow Allah, well, there is no conflict whatsoever because the prophet delivered what Allah gave him to deliver, the prophet didn't invent anything other than what he was ordered by Allah to invent like how to perform Salat for example, i.e. all the prophet actions should be qualified by the Quran, therefore following the prophet indeed means following Allah alone, but ONLY if we follow what is qualified by the Quran, in this case we will have a strong argument in our defence if we found ourselves liable of committing shirk (The unforgivable sin) by following allegations about him that were never true.
A. L. R. (This is) a Book, with verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning), further explained in detail,- from One Who is Wise and Well-acquainted (with all things): [The Quran , 11:1]
الَر كِتَابٌ أُحْكِمَتْ آيَاتُهُ ثُمَّ فُصِّلَتْ مِن لَّدُنْ حَكِيمٍ خَبِيرٍ (1)
-> We have read how Allah stressed in a couple of verses that the Quran is the major source of belief and guidance, we have also read that Allah made it easy for remembrance as well He explained it within itself, in this verse we read that Allah is saying: (This is) a Book, with verses basic or fundamental (of established meaning), further explained in detail,- from One Who is Wise and Well-acquainted (with all things):, ie, the Quran has verses basic or fundamental established meaning, yet Allah further explained it in details, well if you read the Quran a lot you will see the miracle in how the verses relate to each other while NEVER conflict despite the additional info they add to each other to bring a complete story, many things are repeated numerous times using different words with the same exact meanings.
A. L. R. These are the verses of wise Revelation, [The Quran , 15:1]
الر تِلْكَ آيَاتُ الْكِتَابِ الْحَكِيمِ (1)
-> A short verse to tell us that Quran is obvious to recognise:These are the verses of wise Revelation,. See, the believers in the Quran have witness such wisdom in the Quran, now, try to search for such wisdom in the man made books of hadith, indeed you may find some wisdom in there, but you will also read a lot of non sense that has nothing to do with any wisdom, like sleeping with all your wives one after the other and without having a abth in between, this should lead to dismissing the whole books of man made hearsay hadith, otherwise it will divide the believers from the point where each one of them will accept some man made crap that is not accepted by others, you can see this conflict clearly between Bukhari and his student Muslim, one accepted hearsay while the other did not accept it and vice versa.
Alif Lam Ra. These are the verses of the obvious Book [The Quran , 12:1]
الر تِلْكَ آيَاتُ الْكِتَابِ الْمُبِينِ (1)
-> Same is confirmed here, These are the verses of the obvious Book, again many translators translated this verse wrong, they think Al Kitab Al Mubin means the book that makes things manifest, but it actually means it is obvious that the book is from our God and not man made, unlike the hadith which is obvious that it is man made and not from the God.
Alif Lam Ra. A Book which We have sent down to you in order to drive the people out of the darkness into the light by the permission of their Lord into the path of the Mighty, the Praised. [The Quran , 14:1]
الَر كِتَابٌ أَنزَلْنَاهُ إِلَيْكَ لِتُخْرِجَ النَّاسَ مِنَ الظُّلُمَاتِ إِلَى النُّورِ بِإِذْنِ رَبِّهِمْ إِلَى صِرَاطِ الْعَزِيزِ الْحَمِيدِ (1)
-> This verse also shows us the objective of the Quran as the main tool for the prophet to bring the people out of the darkness to the light(This is) a Book which We have revealed to you that you may bring forth men, by their Lord's permission from utter darkness into light, and what is the light? It is: to the way of the Mighty, the Praised One, I.e. the Quran is the main and most important source to recognise the way to Allah. The books of hadith on the other hand do not bring the people from the darkness to the light, RATHER, the other way around, look at the Muslims Ummah and judge it for yourself, in the last 1200 years the Ummah was heading in a steady path to the darkness, they started to divide and conflict straight after the prophet death, some opposed the Khilafah of Abu Bakr, then Omar was killed, then Uthman was detained in his house then killed, then Aysha fought with Ali and thousands of Muslim were killed by other Muslims (remember the verse that tells us that a Muslim can not kill another Muslim unless it was by mistake), in this battle, the battle of Al Gamal, Muslims were killing Muslims deliberately, which mean, we may conclude that they were not Muslims by doing so, because the Quran tells us that if a Muslim kills another Muslim, it can only happen by mistake, if it happened deliberately, then it can not be a mistake and consequently the killer could have never been a Muslim. Since such battle of Al Gamal, the Muslims went steadily down the drain, joining Satan in the lowest possibly level, divided their religions into many sects, abandoning the teaching of the Quran, and inventing a totally new religion that is based on many other conflicting books that were shirked with the Book of Allah. THAT IS WHAT I CALL DARKNESS.
And We have not sent down to you the Book except that you may explain to them that about which they differ, and a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe. [The Quran , 16:64]
وَمَا أَنزَلْنَا عَلَيْكَ الْكِتَابَ إِلاَّ لِتُبَيِّنَ لَهُمُ الَّذِي اخْتَلَفُواْ فِيهِ وَهُدًى وَرَحْمَةً لِّقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ (64)
-> The verse tells us that the Quran was revealed so people can resolve things in which they differ as Mohammad should have been explaining it to them : And We have not sent down to you the Book except that you may explain to them that about which they differ, as well its purpose : and a guidance and a mercy for a people who believe. Another strong message that highlights the importance of the Quran by Allah, it should be noted that the prophet used the Quran to explain to the people the things in which they have differed, i.e. all the hadith of the prophet MUST BE QUALIFIED BY THE QURAN BECAUSE THAT WAS THE ONLY TOOL HE WAS USING ACCORDING TO 16:64, simply, the Quran qualifies the hadith NOT the other way around. Al Mushrikoon however tell us that it can be the other way around, i.e. the hadith may qualify the Quran, some of them even dared to claim that the hadith may abrogate the Quran because the hadith method of authentication is more accurate than the method of authenticating the Quran, the fools could not understand that the Quran need not to be qualified by any method other than looking at its content and see if any human claimed to have authored it, then see if it contradicts itself, we do not need a chain of narrators to qualify the Quran, the chain is only as follow: Allah (the God) -> Jebril (an angel messenger ) -> Mohammed (a human messenger), there is absolutely nothing to qualify in such chain, it is all about BELIEF, which is the main objective of the test.
We have revealed for you (O men!) a book in which is your message: will you not then understand? [The Quran , 21:10]
لَقَدْ أَنزَلْنَا إِلَيْكُمْ كِتَابًا فِيهِ ذِكْرُكُمْ أَفَلَا تَعْقِلُونَ (10)
-> A straightforward verse: We have revealed for you (O men!) a book in which is your message , but look how the verse is ending with wonder: : will you not then understand?, it is like come on, please understand and start pondering upon the Quran. Al Mushrikoon from the people of Mohammed do not do that, they totally ignored the message, let?????????????????????¢??s see again, how the prophet will be a witness against those Mushrikoon from his people:
And the Messenger will say: O my Lord! surely my people have treated this Quran as a forsaken thing. [The Quran ; 25:30]
وَقَالَ الرَّسُولُ يَا رَبِّ إِنَّ قَوْمِي اتَّخَذُوا هَذَا الْقُرْآنَ مَهْجُورًا (30)
-> An example of such people are all those who spend their lives either not pondering about anything, or ponder only about the man made hadith while ignoring the Quran, if you watch those Mushrikoon carefully, you should notice that they always talk hadith, they hardly talk Quran.
Surely they who recite the Book of Allah and keep up prayer and spend out of what We have given them secretly and openly, hope for a gain which will not perish. [The Quran , 35:29]
إِنَّ الَّذِينَ يَتْلُونَ كِتَابَ اللَّهِ وَأَقَامُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَأَنفَقُوا مِمَّا رَزَقْنَاهُمْ سِرًّا وَعَلَانِيَةً يَرْجُونَ تِجَارَةً لَّن تَبُورَ (29)
-> We can see here that Allah is describing the belief in Him as if we are tradesman who want to trade and end up with profit, so those tradesmen need to do the following to profit:
# 1: recite the Book of Allah,
# 2 :keep up prayer
# 3: spend out of what We have given them secretly and openly ie, giving money to the poor,
Those tradesmen are hoping for: hope for a gain which will not perish.. Now, can you see that reading the Quran was # 1, also where the hadith of the prophet in there if it was divine as the hadith worshippers are telling us that whatever Mohammed said, was divine.
Then We have given the Book for inheritance to such of Our servants as We have chosen: but there are among them some who wrong their own souls; some who follow a middle course; and some who are, by Allah's leave, foremost in good deeds; that is the highest Grace. [The Quran , 35:32]
ثُمَّ أَوْرَثْنَا الْكِتَابَ الَّذِينَ اصْطَفَيْنَا مِنْ عِبَادِنَا فَمِنْهُمْ ظَالِمٌ لِّنَفْسِهِ وَمِنْهُم مُّقْتَصِدٌ وَمِنْهُمْ سَابِقٌ بِالْخَيْرَاتِ بِإِذْنِ اللَّهِ ذَلِكَ هُوَ الْفَضْلُ الْكَبِيرُ (32)
-> This verse is very important, it divides the believers into 3 groups in the judgment day, I will not discuss this in detail for now. The main important point I want to mention here is, the people who never saw the prophet, ONLY INHERTITED the Quran from him: Then We have given the Book for inheritance to such of Our servants as We have chosen, the verse never stated that the believers should inherit the man made books of hadith that were invented 200 years after the completion of the Quran.
The month of Ramadan is that in which the Quran was sent down, a guidance to the people and signs of the guidance and the criterion; ?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦. [The Quran , 2:185]
شَهْرُ رَمَضَانَ الَّذِيَ أُنزِلَ فِيهِ الْقُرْآنُ هُدًى لِّلنَّاسِ وَبَيِّنَاتٍ مِّنَ الْهُدَى وَالْفُرْقَانِ ..... (185)
-> In this verse a popular one in the Quran, Allah is telling us that He revealed the Quran in the month of Ramadan: The month of Ramadan is that in which the Quran was sent down, and why Allah sent the Quran down: a guidance to the people and signs of the guidance and the criterion , very clear verse about the importance of the Quran. So far we never read that the man made books of hadith should be of any source to the guidance of the people and signs of the guidance and criterion.
Do they not understand the Quran? And if it had been from anyone other than Allah, they would have found in it many discrepancy. [The Quran , 4:82]
أَفَلاَ يَتَدَبَّرُونَ الْقُرْآنَ وَلَوْ كَانَ مِنْ عِندِ غَيْرِ اللّهِ لَوَجَدُواْ فِيهِ اخْتِلاَفًا كَثِيرًا (82)
-> This is the verse with which the enemy of Islam are obsessed, I brought it here, because it tells us a very important note about the Quran, it tells us, if this Quran was made by any other source, we would have find it full of discrepancies, Do they not understand the Quran? And if it had been from anyone other than Allah, they would have found in it many discrepancy. This really means that any other book or hadith may be full of discrepancies if Allah is not its Author. In fact many of the hadith narrated by many people and relating to the prophet are corrupted and full of discrepancies. How clear, it is impossible that we should be ordered to follow books that are certainly and irrefutably full of discrepancies.
And when the Quran is read, then listen to it and pay attention so that mercy may be granted to you. [The Quran , 7:204]
وَإِذَا قُرِىءَ الْقُرْآنُ فَاسْتَمِعُواْ لَهُ وَأَنصِتُواْ لَعَلَّكُمْ تُرْحَمُونَ (204)
-> In this verse Allah is advising us, when the Quran is read we should listen WITH ATTENTION, , And when the Quran is read, then listen to it and pay attention so that mercy may be granted to you , see how we will be granted mercy, by only listening to and paying attention to the Quran when it is read, where is the alleged hadith of the prophet in here?
And certainly We have given you seven of the of the verses and the great Quran. [The Quran , 15:87]
وَلَقَدْ آتَيْنَاكَ سَبْعًا مِّنَ الْمَثَانِي وَالْقُرْآنَ الْعَظِيمَ (87)
-> In this small verse Allah is telling prophet Mohammed that He has given him THE GREAT QURAN: And certainly We have given you seven of the of the verses and the great Quran. , why it is great? Because it is the only guidance that we were asked to follow as well when we do, we may be granted mercy.
Indeed, this Quran guides to that which is best, and gives good tidings to the believers who do good that for them is a great reward. [The Quran , 17:9]
إِنَّ هَذَا الْقُرْآنَ يِهْدِي لِلَّتِي هِيَ أَقْوَمُ وَيُبَشِّرُ الْمُؤْمِنِينَ الَّذِينَ يَعْمَلُونَ الصَّالِحَاتِ أَنَّ لَهُمْ أَجْرًا كَبِيرًا (9)
-> Here, we read that knowing the Quran very well will lead to : Indeed, this Quran guides to that which is best,, and if we comply, then here is the good tidings for the its followers: and gives good tidings to the believers who do good that for them is a great reward.
And We have certainly explained in this Quran that they may remember, but it does not increase them except in aversion. [The Quran , 17:41]
وَلَقَدْ صَرَّفْنَا فِي هَذَا الْقُرْآنِ لِيَذَّكَّرُواْ وَمَا يَزِيدُهُمْ إِلاَّ نُفُورًا (41)
-> This verse confirms again that Allah: And We have certainly explained in this Quran that they may remember, , however the wicked humans will : but it does not increase them except in aversion. , this bit applies more to al-Kafiroon, not al-Mushrikoon, this is how amazing this book is, here is what it does for the following three groups of people:
1- The true believers will stand firm and be united by the Quran alone, they spend their life studying it, which should guide them and make them entitled to the mercy of Allah.
2- The Mushrikoon, who are also believers in Allah, but fell preys to the Shirk invitation by Iblis, they simply, ignore the Quran, while claiming to be believers in it, they are too busy indulged in their man made crap that they shirk with the Book of Allah which made the Quran for them as if it does not exist.
3- The Kafiroon, who do not believe in the Quran, while they claim that they studied it, like the FFI goons, according to those goons, they claim that after reading and studying the Quran, it made them hate the religion of Allah more, see how 17:41 told us about them: but it does not increase them except in aversion. , HOW ACCURATE the Quran is, amazing, I tell you.
The goons claim that the Quran should be so easy to understand, consequently they also claim that they did understand it, on the other hand the Quran tells us that those goons WILL NEVER UNDERSTAND IT:
And We have placed over their hearts coverings lest they understand it (the Quran), and in their ears heaviness, and when you mention your Lord alone in the Quran they turn back in aversion. [The Quran , 17:46]
وَجَعَلْنَا عَلَى قُلُوبِهِمْ أَكِنَّةً أَن يَفْقَهُوهُ وَفِي آذَانِهِمْ وَقْرًا وَإِذَا ذَكَرْتَ رَبَّكَ فِي الْقُرْآنِ وَحْدَهُ وَلَّوْاْ عَلَى أَدْبَارِهِمْ نُفُورًا (46)
-> And for the wicked (like the FFI goons) , the mute, the deaf and the blind, this is why they will never understand the Quran and they will keep detesting it until they die then they will have the big surprise, but there will be no return, they have to take what they earned after rejecting the warning, there will have no option but be patient with the punishment, that is if they can, let's see why they will never understand it: And We have placed over their hearts coverings lest they understand it (the Quran),, and these wicked people when they hear the name of Allah mentioned alone in his book: and in their ears heaviness, and when you mention your Lord alone in the Quran they turn back in aversion. , why Allah said His name alone in the Quran? He never said His name and His prophet name, as He many times said: Obey Allah and His prophet, it implies that it is all about Allah, it is not about anyone else.
And certainly We have explained to the people in this Quran of every similitude, but most of the people consented not except to disbelief. [The Quran , 17:89]
وَلَقَدْ صَرَّفْنَا لِلنَّاسِ فِي هَذَا الْقُرْآنِ مِن كُلِّ مَثَلٍ فَأَبَى أَكْثَرُ النَّاسِ إِلاَّ كُفُورًا (89)
-> In here we read new information about the Quran, that Allah explained every kind of similitude in our life needed to prosper in this test: And certainly We have explained to the people in this Quran of every similitude,, i.e. everything we need to pass the test, the Kafiroon however say: No that is not enough, we need every similitude for everything in life, so they reject and disbelieve what is told to them in the Quran, i.e. they increase in disbelief: but most of the people consented not except to disbelief. another accurate verse describing those who reject the Quran.
The next verse is similar to 17:89, however it may apply to Al Mushrikoon along with Al Kafiroon, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look:
And certainly We have explained to the people in this Quran of every similitude, but the human is, in most things, contentious. [The Quran , 18:54]
وَلَقَدْ صَرَّفْنَا فِي هَذَا الْقُرْآنِ لِلنَّاسِ مِن كُلِّ مَثَلٍ وَكَانَ الْإِنسَانُ أَكْثَرَ شَيْءٍ جَدَلًا (54)
-> See the same message: And certainly We have explained to the people in this Quran of every similitude, , which is identical to 17:89, however the final part is not identical, the final part in here may apply to both Al Mushrikoon and Al Kafiroon: but the human is, in most things, contentious. , The Kafiroon certainly argue against the Quran that it is not the word of God, Al Mushrikoon on the other hand argue that it is not enough to pass the test, they argue that some man made books are needed along with the Quran to be able to comprehend and understand the religion, for those people of Shirk, I tell them, look what this verse is saying again: And certainly We have explained to the people in this Quran of every similitude, , it obviously means every similitude to pass the enforced test. Al Mushrikoon however try to reply by saying, how about the Salat?, the Quran did not tell us how to pray. I tell them again and again, the Salat law is already enforced by Allah on all people even those before the message of Islam, all prophets before Mohammed who are mentioned in the Quran were praying to Allah. Therefore there was any new laws by Mohammed regarding Salat, rather a style of his to pray, now if we take his style that is clearly inherited, then I see nothing wrong with that, because all the actions performed in the Salat from Qiam (standing), Rikoo (kneeling), Qiood (sitting) and Sijood (prostrating) are all mentioned in the Quran, even the words Subhan Rabi Al Azim and Subhan Rabi Aalla and many other words are mentioned in the Quran, i.e. the style of Salat as we inherited from Mohammed is qualified by the Quran, there is no shirk in here if we follow the prophet alleged style of Salat, the prophet never made the law of Salat from the first place.
The above message that the Quran is the only source for guidance is repeated again but yet with different ending:
And certainly We have explained to the people in this Quran of every similitude, perhaps they may remember. [The Quran , 39:27]
وَلَقَدْ ضَرَبْنَا لِلنَّاسِ فِي هَذَا الْقُرْآنِ مِن كُلِّ مَثَلٍ لَّعَلَّهُمْ يَتَذَكَّرُونَ (27)
-> Again : And certainly We have explained to the people in this Quran of every similitude, perhaps they may remember. , see, the Quran is the only source for the believers to remember what Allah has commanded them, as well we read in it what Allah has commanded the prophet to say, i.e. the Quran is the only authenticated and true source for the hadith of Mohammed. i.e. by reading the Quran, we will be also remembering the true hadith of Mohammed as documented in it, an example is the following verse out of many:
And recite the Quran: and if any accept guidance, they do it for the good of their own souls, and if any stray, say: I am only a Warner. [The Quran , 27:92]
وَأَنْ أَتْلُوَ الْقُرْآنَ فَمَنِ اهْتَدَى فَإِنَّمَا يَهْتَدِي لِنَفْسِهِ وَمَن ضَلَّ فَقُلْ إِنَّمَا أَنَا مِنَ الْمُنذِرِينَ (92)
-> Allah is telling Mohammad to recite the Quran to the people, i.e. to use it to guide the people and those who will be guided (by the words of the Quran of course) they will do it for their own good: And recite the Quran: and if any accept guidance, they do it for the good of their own souls, now, for those who listen to it them reject it, the prophet was commanded to SAY to them: and if any stray, say: I am only a Warner, here you have it, A TRUE HADITH OF MOHAMMED, the verse also confirms that no compulsion in Islam, because when the people reject the recited words of the Quran, the prophet was ordered to only tell them that he is only a warner, no fighting whatsoever, this verse confirms that the verses of aggression in the Quran, are in self defence and for forcing the laws on Muslim lands, NOT TO FORCE THE UNBELIVERS TO BELIEVE.
To be continued........
Last edited by AhmedBahgat on Thu 25 Dec, 2008 10:01 pm; edited 2 times in total
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Wed 24 Dec, 2008 5:41 pm
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And We send down of the Quran that which is a healing and a mercy to the believers, and it does not increase the unjust except in loss. [The Quran , 17:82]
وَنُنَزِّلُ مِنَ الْقُرْآنِ مَا هُوَ شِفَاء وَرَحْمَةٌ لِّلْمُؤْمِنِينَ وَلاَ يَزِيدُ الظَّالِمِينَ إَلاَّ خَسَارًا (82)
-> See how what I said all along for the true believers and for the Kafiroon is confirmed in here, the verse states that the Quran will heal the true believes in it: And We send down of the Quran that which is a healing and a mercy to the believers, the man made books of hadith can not be of such description, simply it is not mentioned, now for the for the wicked like the goons of FFI: and it does not increase the unjust except in loss. , it is indeed amazing to witness the same book is causing the two opposite extremes described with amazing selection of words: healing and a mercy to the believers and it does not increase the unjust except in loss .
One of the flawed argument of Al Mushrikoon trying to justify their books of man made hadith, they say that the prophet had to explain the Quran, otherwise we cannot understand it. The matter of the fact however is clear, that the man made books of hadith failed to explain to us all the Quran, it hardly explained 50% of the Quran, therefore according to their own flawed logic, we cannot understand about 50% of the Quran. Their flaw in their allegation is exposed when we read the following verses:
17- It is upon Us collecting it and reading it,
18- And when We have read it, follow its reading,
19- Moreover, it is upon Us to explain it. [The Quran , 75:17-19]
إِنَّ عَلَيْنَا جَمْعَهُ وَقُرْآنَهُ (17)
فَإِذَا قَرَأْنَاهُ فَاتَّبِعْ قُرْآنَهُ (18)
ثُمَّ إِنَّ عَلَيْنَا بَيَانَهُ (19)
-> These 3 short verses are telling us clearly that Allah is in charge of collecting and reading the Quran,: It is upon Us collecting it and reading it, then He advised Mohamed (and us) that when the Quran is read we should follow its reading: And when We have read it, follow its reading, and finally Allah is also in charge of explaining it : Moreover, it is upon Us to explain it., He never told us to follow reading of the alleged hadith of the prophet. And certainly by following the reading of the Quran alone, we will be following the words of Allah as well the 100% authentic words of Mohammed.
To the point of Allah explaining the Quran, of course, Allah will not come down and explain it to us, the best logical understanding in here that Allah explained the Quran using the Quran, i.e. the Quran explains itself. In this case all the verses talking about the same thing are compared together where a conclusion may be reached, if a conclusion could not be reached then the matter should be classified as not needed to be known to pass the test.
The Quran explaining itself can also be achieved by comparing the same word uses all around the verses found in the Quran (all the verses where the occurrences of any word or a form of it must be studied to reach a conclusion).
Using both approaches, I found in my many years of Quran study that it indeed explains itself and answers most of the reasonable religious questions considering its whole context within any answer.
One of the clear facts mentioned in the Quran about Mohammed is the following:
3: And most surely you shall have a reward never to be cut off.
4: And most surely you conform (yourself) to sublime morality. [The Quran ; 68:3-4]
وَإِنَّ لَكَ لَأَجْرًا غَيْرَ مَمْنُونٍ (3)
وَإِنَّكَ لَعَلى خُلُقٍ عَظِيمٍ (4)
-> See what Allah told us about Mohammed: And most surely you conform (yourself) to sublime morality. , and due to that reason and many others, Allah told us as well about him: And most surely you shall have a reward never to be cut off. , there is no way that Allah will reward Mohammed with a reward that never be cut off while Mohammed was not conforming himself to sublime morality, i.e. there is no way that we accept a hearsay that indicates the slightest that Mohammed was not conforming himself to sublime morality but if we do then it means we accept that what Allah told us in 68:4 is not true.
Now, considering 68:3 also, it clearly implies that any messenger of Allah should have not worried or sought the rewards and enjoyment of the life of this world, this is because they were sent to guide and warn the people and be excellent examples to them, all united in one cause, the cause of Allah alone, that is the logic of there an made hadith, simply if you drink alcohol in this life, you will not drink it in the hereafter, if you wear gold in this life, you won?????????????????????¢??t wear it in the hereafter, and if you comply yourself to morality in the sexual life of this life then you will have virgins in the hereafter, that is what the man made books of hadith tell us, now for a great prophet like Mohammed whose reward in the hereafter is assured as 68:3 told us, he should have never sought the enjoyments of this life, the enjoyments of this life must include sex in general, and legal sex specifically, now despite the alleged hadith of Bukhari that Mohammed was only involved in legal sex with his wives, the incident must be still questioned regarding the morality of a prophet who should have never worried about his sexual life in this world from the first place, consequently the truthfulness of such alleged hadith must be rejected due to the moral contradiction with 68:3-4, such alleged practice about the prophet does not only contradict with 68:3-4, rather with many other verses of commanding the believers to be fair with all wives ,a and with the verses commanding Mohammed to always clean his cloths and shun uncleanness.
One of the known facts about the hadith worshippers that they themselves admit that there are thousands of fake hadith, on the other hand Allah is telling us in the next verse that the Quran could have never been faked:
Certainly in their stories there is a lesson for those who posses minds. It is not a HADITH that is forged, but a verification of what is before him and an explanation of everything and a guidance and a mercy to a people who believe. [The Quran ; 12:111]
لَقَدْ كَانَ فِي قَصَصِهِمْ عِبْرَةٌ لِّأُوْلِي الأَلْبَابِ مَا كَانَ حَدِيثًا يُفْتَرَى وَلَكِن تَصْدِيقَ الَّذِي بَيْنَ يَدَيْهِ وَتَفْصِيلَ كُلَّ شَيْءٍ وَهُدًى وَرَحْمَةً لِّقَوْمٍ يُؤْمِنُونَ (111)
-> Allah is telling us that the Quran : It is not a HADITH that is forged, , i.e. all believers in the Quran agree that they believe that the Quran is a hadith that is not forged, on the other hand they all also agree that the sayings alleged about the prophet may be forged and indeed they agree that many of it is forged, for example Bukhari himself told us that out of 600,000 hadith alleged about the prophet, he only managed to authenticate about 7000 of them, i.e. about 593,000 hadith might have been forged according to Bukhari himself.
If the percentage of forgery is that high when it comes to the man made hadith, how come we can trust such piles of allegations, well, there is only one way to do, to use the unforged Quran to qualify the forged hadith, how simple is that for the hadith worshippers to comprehend? Yet they are a bunch of stubborn fools who insist on their shirk that if the hadith is authenticated via their invented crap of Ilm Al Jarh Wa Al Taadeel it has to be taken as truthful and may even overwrite the Quran verses.
In fact, according to the next verse, we should only believe in the hadith of the Quran alone, we should have never joined any man made hadith with it, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look:
Do they not look into the kingdom of the heavens and the earth and whatever Allah has created of anything, and that may be their appointed time have drawn near; so in what HADITH after that (the Quran) would they believe? [The Quran ; 7:185]
أَوَلَمْ يَنظُرُواْ فِي مَلَكُوتِ السَّمَاوَاتِ وَالأَرْضِ وَمَا خَلَقَ اللّهُ مِن شَيْءٍ وَأَنْ عَسَى أَن يَكُونَ قَدِ اقْتَرَبَ أَجَلُهُمْ فَبِأَيِّ حَدِيثٍ بَعْدَهُ يُؤْمِنُونَ (185)
-> Allah is telling us that there is no other hadith after the Quran in which people may believe: so in what HADITH after that (the Quran) would they believe? , the word THAT is referring to the Quran, in effect 7:185 is telling us that there should be no other HADITH after the Quran that we should believe in or there is no other HADITH after the Quran that can cause people to believe.
One of the most important points that any believer in Allah should believe in, is simply, No one is more truthful in any hadith other than Allah, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look:
Allah, there is no god but He, He will gather you together on the resurrection day, which no doubt about it; and who is more truthful than Allah in HADITH? [The Quran ; 4:87]
اللّهُ لا إِلَهَ إِلاَّ هُوَ لَيَجْمَعَنَّكُمْ إِلَى يَوْمِ الْقِيَامَةِ لاَ رَيْبَ فِيهِ وَمَنْ أَصْدَقُ مِنَ اللّهِ حَدِيثًا (87)
-> Allah is telling us that there will be no HADITH that is 100% truthful compared to His Hadith: and who is more truthful than Allah in HADITH? , the hadith advocates are aware of this verse that is why they always say Bukhari hadith in his book is the second most authentic after the hadith of Allah in His Quran, i.e. the hadith of Allah in His Quran is better than the hadith of Bukhari in his sahih book, but that does not mean in any way that we should follow hadith of Bukhari in addition to Allah hadith, being a second best does not mean that we should shirk it with the first best, and if we do then this must constitute SHIRK because we were ordered to only rule with what Allah has sent down as I will show later on inshaallah, i.e. we were ordered to only rule by the hadith of Allah (the Quran), in addition to that we were also told that the true believers are those who hear the sayings and follow THE BEST OF IT, this is very important point indeed and everyone must look at it very careful, let me explain it in a better way:
In the following verse, the Quran is clearly described as being a saying (QAWL) of a noble prophet:
Most surely it is the QAWL of an honoured messenger, [The Quran ; 81:19]
إِنَّهُ لَقَوْلُ رَسُولٍ كَرِيمٍ (19)
-> I left the word Qawl (saying) untranslated. In the above verse the Quran was described as the Qawl of an honoured messenger: it is the QAWL of an honoured messenger , i.e. the Quran is the saying of the noble prophet, i.e. if we follow the Quran alone then we are indeed following the true HADITH OF THE PROPHET. And as I said the true hadith of the noble prophet is documented in the Quran through the many commands by Allah to: Qul?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦., Qul?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦., Qul?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦., Qul?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦. i.e. Say?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦., Say?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦., Say?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦., Say?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦., i.e. the Quran is the TRUE HADITH/QAWL (SAYING) of Mohammed.
After proving that the Quran is also Qawl (saying) in addition of being called Hadith (saying), in the next verse Allah is telling us that the true believers who are on true guidance are those who listen to the Qawl (saying) and follow the BEST of it, i.e. follow the first best of all sayings:
Those who listen to the QAWL, then follow the best of it; those are they whom Allah has guided, and those it is who are the men of understanding. [The Quran ; 39:18]
الَّذِينَ يَسْتَمِعُونَ الْقَوْلَ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ أَحْسَنَهُ أُوْلَئِكَ الَّذِينَ هَدَاهُمُ اللَّهُ وَأُوْلَئِكَ هُمْ أُوْلُوا الْأَلْبَابِ (18)
-> See, الَّذِينَ يَسْتَمِعُونَ الْقَوْلَ فَيَتَّبِعُونَ أَحْسَنَهُ , i.e. the verse is talking about Those who listen to the QAWL (saying), then follow the best of it; , i.e. those who listen to the sayings and follow the best of it, we have been told that they are the ones on true guidance: those are they whom Allah has guided, and those it is who are the men of understanding. , can you see the words men of understanding., while it is an accepted translation, the Arabic words means those who have BRAINS Aulu Al Albaab. i.e. those who listen to the sayings and follow the best of it are those whom Allah has guided, and they are the ones who have brains.
Now, some Muslims may say ok we read the Qawl of humans in the human hadith (like Bukhari) and we read the Qawl of Allah in His Quran and we found that Allah Qawl is the best so we are obliged to only follow the best according to 39:18 above, i.e. according to 39:18, they should only follow the Quran. In fact it was Allah Himself who ruled that His Hadith is the first BEST, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look:
Allah has sent down the best HADITH, a book conformable in its various parts, repeating, whereat do shudder the skins of those who fear their Lord, then their skins and their hearts become pliant to the remembrance of Allah; this is Allah's guidance, He guides with it whom He pleases; and (as for) him whom Allah causes to err, there is no guide for him. [The Quran ; 39:23]
اللَّهُ نَزَّلَ أَحْسَنَ الْحَدِيثِ كِتَابًا مُّتَشَابِهًا مَّثَانِيَ تَقْشَعِرُّ مِنْهُ جُلُودُ الَّذِينَ يَخْشَوْنَ رَبَّهُمْ ثُمَّ تَلِينُ جُلُودُهُمْ وَقُلُوبُهُمْ إِلَى ذِكْرِ اللَّهِ ذَلِكَ هُدَى اللَّهِ يَهْدِي بِهِ مَنْ يَشَاء وَمَن يُضْلِلْ اللَّهُ فَمَا لَهُ مِنْ هَادٍ (23)
-> See how it was said in 39:23, اللَّهُ نَزَّلَ أَحْسَنَ الْحَدِيثِ , i.e. Allah has sent down the best HADITH , now considering 39:18 where Allah also told us about those who are guided by Him and are men of understanding (have brains), that they should follow the best of sayings after they listened to all, THIS MEANS THOSE WHO ARE TRULY GUIDED BY HIM AND PERFECTLY UNDERSTAND HIS MESSAGE SHOULD ONLY FOLLOW THE QURAN (THE BEST OF HADITH ACCORDING TO ALLAH), do not also forget that in addition that Allah told us that His hadith is the first best, He also told us in 4:87 that His hadith is the most truthful. How possible for a sane believer to shirk such great of hadith by Allah, with the highly forged human hadith? It must be related to Satan, I tell you, I could not find any other logical reason for any believer to do so except accepting the invitation of Satan to shirk.
Back to a point that I raised earlier that all religions sent from Allah must rule by what Allah has sent down in His scriptures NOT what the human conjecture, speculate or invent, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look at those clear verses:
.
44- We have sent down the Taurat in which was guidance and light; the prophets who submitted themselves (to Allah) judge by it for those who were Jews, and the Rabbis and the scholars, because of that which they entrusted of the Book of Allah, and they were over it witnesses; therefore fear not the people and fear Me, and do not take a small price in exchange for My signs; and whoever does not judge by what Allah has sent down, those are ones who are the unbelievers.
45- And We ordained upon them in it that the soul is for the soul, and the eye for the eye, and the nose for the nose, and the ear for the ear, and the tooth for the tooth, and the wounds are retribution; but whoever foregoes it, it shall be an expiation for him; and whoever does not judge by what Allah has sent down, those are ones who are the unjust.
46- And We caused to follow after them in their footsteps Isa, son of Marium, verifying what was between his hands of the Taurat and We gave him the Injeel, in it was guidance and light, and verifying what was between his hands of the Taurat and a guidance and an admonition for the pious.
47- And the people of the Injeel should judge by what Allah has sent down in it; and whoever does not judge by what Allah has sent down, those are the ones who are the transgressors.
48- And We have sent down to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is between his hands of the Book and a ruler over it, therefore judge between them by what Allah has sent down, and do not follow their desires in change of what has come to you of the truth; for every one of you We made a law and a way, and had Allah willed He would have made you a single nation, but that He might test you in what He gave you, therefore strive for virtuous deeds; to Allah is your return all together, and He will inform you concerning that in which you differed;
49- And judge between them by what Allah has sent down, and do not follow their desires, and be cautious of them, lest they tempt you away from some of what Allah has sent down to you; but if they turn back, then know that Allah wants to strike them by some of their sins; and indeed most of the people are transgressors.
-> Verse 44, Allah is explaining to Mohammed what was in the Torah: We have sent down the Taurat in which was guidance and light , the Torah was used by Moses to rule with what Allah revealed to him: the prophets who submitted themselves (to Allah) judge by it for those who were Jews, and the Rabbis and the scholars, because of that which they entrusted of the Book of Allah . Now look how the verse ended: وَمَن لَّمْ يَحْكُم بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللّهُ فَأُوْلَئِكَ هُمُ الْكَافِرُونَ , i.e. and whoever does not judge by what Allah has sent down, those are ones who are the unbelievers. Clearly those who rule by what Allah didn?????????????????????¢??t send down are Kafiroon, remember the hearsay hadith by Darmi, in which we were informed that the Jews wrote some other books and followed it while ignoring what Allah has sent down to them, this verse, confirms such hearsay hadith.
-> Verse 45, Here is a sample of Allah Judgment in the Torah: And We ordained upon them in it that the soul is for the soul, and the eye for the eye, and the nose for the nose, and the ear for the ear, and the tooth for the tooth, and the wounds are retribution; , this is like what Allah ordained upon us in the Quran to flog the adulterers, yet Al Mushrikoon from the Muslims want to rule by something that is shirked with what Allah ordained in the Quran, exactly identical to what the Jews did with their man made Tamud and the divine Torah. Now, look how this verse ended too: وَمَن لَّمْ يَحْكُم بِمَا أنزَلَ اللّهُ فَأُوْلَئِكَ هُمُ الظَّالِمُونَ , i.e. and whoever does not judge by what Allah has sent down, those are ones who are the unjust. ANOTHER WARNING TO THOSE MUSHRIKOON WHO RULE BY OTHER MAN MADE INVENTION WHICH ALLAH DID NOT SEND DOWN.
-> In verse 46, Allah is talking about another group of people, the Christians, And We caused to follow after them in their footsteps Isa, son of Marium, verifying what was between his hands of the Taurat, Can you see how the message of Jesus could have never contradicted the message of Moses, in fact the message of Jesus was to verify and filter the corruption of the messages before it, this is because all these messages are from the same God. Jesus was not ruling according to his own desires, he was given the Injeel that should include Allah Judgment exactly as it happened with Moses and the Torah: and We gave him the Injeel, in it was guidance and light, and verifying what was between his hands of the Taurat and a guidance and an admonition for the pious. The Christians were also ordered to rule with Al Injeel that was sent down to them as we read in the next verse:
-> Verse 47: here is the order for the Christians to rule with what Allah sent down to them in Al Injeel: And the people of the Injeel should judge by what Allah has sent down in it; look how for the third time another verse ended: وَمَن لَّمْ يَحْكُم بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللّهُ فَأُوْلَئِكَ هُمُ الْفَاسِقُونَ , i.e. and whoever does not judge by what Allah has sent down, those are the ones who are the transgressors. ANOTHER WARNING FOR THOSE WHO RULE WITH WHAT ALLAH NEVER SENT DOWN IN HIS BOOKS.
-> Verse 48, here is the last message from Allah before the JD And We have sent down to you the Book with the truth, verifying what is between his hands (before it) of the Book and a ruler over it, see how this time the Quran is not only to verify the previous scriptures but is also to rule over them as well, unlike the Injeel which was only to verify the Torah but was not a guardian over it. Mohammed was also ordered to rule with what is in the Quran not according to his desires exactly as how Jesus and Moses were ordered: therefore judge between them by what Allah has sent down, Mohammed was also warned that he should never follow their desires to change what was sent down to him: and do not follow their desires in change of what has come to you of the truth; this truth that has come to Mohammed is nothing but the Quran, however mister Bukhari and his associates are telling us that that Mohammed was still following the Jews and Christians desires of stoning the adulterers and killing the apostates as documented in their corrupt Torah, how we know that the killings of the apostates and the adulterers in the Torah were ordained by Allah and not corruption by the Jews and others? We can only use the Quran to verify and over rule if needed, i.e. we compare the Torah with what Allah ruled in the Quran, EXACTLY AS ALLAH TOLD US TO DO: verifying what is between his hands (before it) of the Book and a ruler over it, if the Quran should overrule the corrupt Torah and Injeel, why the Quran should not rule over the man made and corrupt hadith?. It may be possible that such killing in the Torah were ordained by Allah, and even if that was the case, the next words in the verse clearly state that each one of these religions has its own set of laws: for every one of you We made a law and a way, and had Allah willed He would have made you a single nation, but that He might test you in what He gave you, Mohammed on the other hand was clearly ordered to rule with what Allah sent down to him in the Quran and was also warned to follow their desires in changing what Allah sent down to him in the Quran, i.e. Mohammed should have never followed what the Jews and the Christians had in their corrupt Torah and Injeel.
-> In verse 49, the same order and warning to Mohammed to rule with what was sent down to him while never follow the Jews and the Christians desire to change it: And judge between them by what Allah has sent down, and do not follow their desires, see how the warning of not to follow them was stressed big time in this verse and be cautious of them, lest they tempt you away from some of what Allah has sent down to you; , ironically mister Bukhari and his associates in their man made corrupt hadith are telling us that the prophet was still following their desires in killing the adulterers and apostates. See how verse 5:49 ended: and indeed most of the people are transgressors. Most of the people MUST cover those from the people who call themselves believers.
-> In verse 50, Allah is summing it beautifully, Allah is comparing His ruling with the humans rulings: Is it the judgment of the ignorance that they desire? , look how this great verse ended: وَمَنْ أَحْسَنُ مِنَ اللّهِ حُكْمًا لِّقَوْمٍ يُوقِنُونَ , i.e. And who is better than Allah in judgement for a folk who are sure?
How strong and powerful the messages above are in exposing all those from the Jews, Christians and Muslim who rule with what Allah never sent down, I have to repeat those strong messages to those Kafiroon and Mushrikoon hoping they wake up before one hell of a distressful day:
>>> وَمَن لَّمْ يَحْكُم بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللّهُ فَأُوْلَئِكَ هُمُ الْكَافِرُونَ , i.e. and whoever does not judge by what Allah has sent down, those are ones who are the unbelievers. , (5:44)
>>> وَمَن لَّمْ يَحْكُم بِمَا أنزَلَ اللّهُ فَأُوْلَئِكَ هُمُ الظَّالِمُونَ and whoever does not judge by what Allah has sent down, those are ones who are the unjust. , (5:45)
>>> وَمَن لَّمْ يَحْكُم بِمَا أَنزَلَ اللّهُ فَأُوْلَئِكَ هُمُ الْفَاسِقُونَ , i.e. and whoever does not judge by what Allah has sent down, those are the ones who are the transgressors. , (5:47)
>>> وَمَنْ أَحْسَنُ مِنَ اللّهِ حُكْمًا لِّقَوْمٍ يُوقِنُونَ , i.e. And who is better than Allah in judgement for a folk who are sure? , (5:50)
Sadly, that is what most of the people do, they rule and judge with what Allah never sent down despite He is the best of all rulers, if we just take the Muslims as an example, it is so clear that what divided them are nothing but the man made books of hadith, from which each sect selected what they shirk with Allah, each one of these sects is rejoicing with what they have, the Quran clearly warned the Muslims from doing so, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look:
30- Then set your face upright for religion in the right state-- the nature made by Allah in which He has made men; there is no altering of Allah's creation; that is the right religion, but most people do not know?????????????????????¢??
31- Turning to Him, and fear Him and keep up prayer and be not of the polytheists
32- Of those who divided their religion and became sects, every sect rejoicing in what they had with them [The Quran ; 30:30-32]
فَأَقِمْ وَجْهَكَ لِلدِّينِ حَنِيفًا فِطْرَةَ اللَّهِ الَّتِي فَطَرَ النَّاسَ عَلَيْهَا لَا تَبْدِيلَ لِخَلْقِ اللَّهِ ذَلِكَ الدِّينُ الْقَيِّمُ وَلَكِنَّ أَكْثَرَ النَّاسِ لَا يَعْلَمُونَ (30)
مُنِيبِينَ إِلَيْهِ وَاتَّقُوهُ وَأَقِيمُوا الصَّلَاةَ وَلَا تَكُونُوا مِنَ الْمُشْرِكِينَ (31)
مِنَ الَّذِينَ فَرَّقُوا دِينَهُمْ وَكَانُوا شِيَعًا كُلُّ حِزْبٍ بِمَا لَدَيْهِمْ فَرِحُونَ (32)
-> Here is the order to only hold the religion of Allah : Then set your face upright for religion in the right state-- the nature made by Allah in which He has made men; there is no altering of Allah's creation; that is the right religion, but most people do not know,, see how again, most of the people do not really know the religion of Allah, this upright religion is described clearly to us, which is nothing more than : Turning to Him, and fear Him and keep up prayer and be not of the polytheists,, the warning of being not of Al Mushrikoon (the polytheists) is so important in this verse, because in the next verse, it tells one description of those Mushrikoon: Of those who divided their religion and became sects, every sect rejoicing in what they had with them. No doubt that 30:31-32 clearly describes that those who divide their religion and become sects are polytheists. And that is exactly the outcome of following the man made books of hadith next to the book of Allah, and be divided, they are simply Mushrikoon.
There is no doubt that the Quran is the only guidance and was the only tool that the prophet used to call the people to the way of Allah, when we obey him we will be obeying Allah alone, because Mohammad only brought to us what Allah taught him then ordered him to deliver it to us, if any of the laws mentioned in the Quran were not explained like Salat, its way of doing it was inherited orally from the hadith of the prophet in his days, certainly he should have been the best and most qualified source to follow in something vital like the Salat, and by doing so we complied by Allah laws that the prophet should have taught us things that we didn't know before (like how we pray), the prophet never enforced the law of prayer on us rather it was enforced by Allah and is mentioned hundreds of times in the Quran, if we follow the inherited style of Mohammed in praying, then we cannot be Mushrikoon.
Now, what Farid needs to do, is to being even 1/10 of all these evidences that we should follow the man made written books of hadith in addition to the Quran. He cannot use the man made books of hadith to qualify the hadith, he can only use the Quran to qualify the divine order of following such books, even with my Quran evidences being circular referencing the Quran, me and Farid accept that the Quran is the true saying of Allah and is the best of all sayings which could have never been corrupted, therefore I can use the Quran to circualr reference against Farid, on the other hand, Farid cannot use the hadith to circular referencing its validity against me because I reject that it is divine, as well he accepts that many have been already corrupted and many are forged which resulted that many ordinary Muslims and even scholars to accept or reject any hadith based on their own desires, an example of that is the known scholar Al-Albani, who died in 2000, he created his own man made books selecting what should be sahih and what should not be from the sahih books of both Bukhari and Muslim, see how the game of hadith is still going strong till this moment of time, this must confirm to us the fact about the cleverness of Satan
Salam
Posted:
Wed 24 Dec, 2008 5:42 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
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Salam all
I decided to highlight to you, a clear cut Mushrik Muslim in action "Farid"
He is bringing this crap by all these people to explain the following verse:
The verse is only 17 words, and is so simple to understand, here is the my translation to it on the fly:
And if you punish (others) then punish as the like of that with which you were punished, and if you be patient, then that is good for those who are patient.
How simple, it does not need rocket science to understand those very easy 17 words, the message in the verse above is clear, it must be talking about people who are alive, two conflicting parties, let's call them party A and party B
party A punished a few from party B (for whatever reason that was unjust)
now party B must take revenge from party A
so party B should punish party A with something similar to how part A punished party B
How simple
It can not be talking about dead people, simply we cannot punish dead people.
For example, the goons keep punishing the Muslims on this web site, their punishment is nothing but insults and unfounded accusation against the prophet, therefore the Muslims should punish them with the same, i.e. by insulting them back and accusing them with the same exactly.
The verse however gives those who have been punished first, the option of not punishing the perpetrators back and just be patient, which should be better than replying wiith similar punishment, however IT IS AN OPTION, i.e. those who go for replying back with similar punishment COMMITTED NO SIN and certainly are not violating the Quran in any way as Farid is alleging according to the data in his Barbie world
What is funny that Farid failed to understand such simple message, or possibly, he does not want to use his brain in his pinhead, he wants to follow other people spin explanations, so possibly if they are wrong, he might try to blame them, hahahahah, only cowards do that, let's look at the spinning of so called tafsir:
farid wrote:
Salaam,
I believe you have the Quran misinterpreted Ahmed. Allow me to quote to you from the science of Quran about why the 9:126 was revealed and see if it has anything to do with arguments.
What a clear cut confused Mushrik of a freak you are Farid, you keep calling it science of the Quran yet you bring to us some Jerry Springer stories from other source, ARE YOU THAT CONFUSED?, you now sound to me like one of the those confused Ahmadie sectarian followers, am I right that you are an Ahmedie?
farid wrote:
16:126]. Abu Hassan al-Muzakki informed us> Abu'l-'Abbas Muhammad ibn Ishaq> Musa ibn Ishaq> Yahya ibn 'Abd al-Hamid al-Humani> Qays ibn Abi Layla> al-Hakam> Muqassim> Ibn 'Abbas who reported that,
holy crap, so for us to understand 16:126 we need to believe that all these people above existed, who the fuk are all these people?
did you meet any of them?, can you confirm their Jerry Springer stories?
Is their Jerry Springer stories what you call Quran science?
farid wrote:
on the day Hamzah was killed and mutilated,
Oh yeh, we heard about such allegation, so verse 126 is related to Hamza death, right?
farid wrote:
the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, said: ?????????????????????¢??If I get my hand on the Quraysh I will mutilate seventy men of them.
Hmmm, so the messenger of Allah was acting like a revenge maniac of a freak, for one that was mutilated, he wanted to mutilate 70 in front
hahahahahah, are you fukin drunk, mister Farid
mister Farid, I started to be convinced that you are full of shit, a typical Ahmedie if my guess is right that you are one of their confused followers, if not, you must be another confused follower of another sect
Let's continue your Jerry Springer crap that only defamed the prophet so far:
farid wrote:
Allah, exalted is He, then revealed (If ye punish, then punish with the like of that wherewith ye were afflicted. But if ye endure patiently,
Hmmm, so your man made crap of hadith clearly confirmed to us that the prophet ONCE again was talking according to his desires to mutilate 70 men in front of one, and Allah needed to correct him
the correction of Allah may be rendered like this:
If one of your dead is mutilated by the enemy then you should mutilate one dead from the enemy, but not more than one
Are you full of that amount of crap mister Farid
look you idiot, I am not even going to waste my precious time with such non sense of bull shit, I actually cannot
farid wrote:
verily it is better for the patient), upon which the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, said: 'I would rather be patient, O Lord!' ?????????????????????¢?????????????????????? The commentators of the Qur'an said: ?????????????????????¢??When the Muslims saw what the idolaters did to their dead at the Battle of Uhud in terms of ripping open their stomachs, cutting off their male organs and mutilating them in the most ugly way, they said: 'If Allah gives us a chance to get our hands on them, we will mutilate them even worse than what they did; we shall maim them in a way that none of the Arabs did before to any other Arab; and we shall do this and we shall do that'. The Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, stopped at the body of his paternal uncle Hamzah with his nose and ears amputated, his male organs cut off and his stomach ripped open. Hind bint 'Utbah had taken a piece of his liver, chewed it and swallowed it but her stomach could not take it and she threw it up. When the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, heard of this, he said: 'She would have never entered hell if she did digest it; Hamzah is too noble in the sight of Allah to allow any part of his body to enter hell'. When the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, saw Hamzah [lying dead and mutilated], he had never seen, before that, anything which was more painful to his heart. And so he said: 'May Allah's mercy be on you; you were, as far as I know, someone who kept his ties of kinship and did always good deeds. Had it not been for the grieving of those who survived of your family, it would have pleased me to leave you as you are until you are resurrected [on the Day of Judgement] from different bellies. By Allah, if Allah, exalted is He, gives me the opportunity to lay my hand on them, I will mutilate seventy men of them, for what they did to you'. But Allah, exalted is He, revealed (If ye punish, then punish with the like of that wherewith ye were afflicted. But if ye endure patiently, verily it is better for the patient) and so the Prophet, Allah bless him and give him peace, said: 'I would rather be patient', and then he made amends for the oath he had made?????????????????????¢??????????????????????. Here, we need to mention how Hamzah was killed. 'Amr ibn Abi 'Amr al-Muzakki informed us> Muhammad ibn Makki> Muhammad ibn Yusuf> Muhammad ibn Isma'il al-Ju'fi> Abu Ja'far Muhammad ibn 'Abd Allah> Hujayn ibn al-Muthanna> 'Abd al-'Aziz ibn 'Abd Allah ibn Abi Salamah. And we were informed by Muhammad ibn Ibrahim ibn Muhammad ibn Yahya> his father> Muhammad ibn Ishaq al-Thaqafi> Sa'id ibn Yahya al-Umawi> his father> Muhammad ibn Ishaq> 'Abd Allah ibn al-Fadl ibn 'Ayyash ibn Abi Rabi'ah> Sulayman ibn Yasar> Ja'far ibn 'Amr ibn Umayyah al-Damri who said: ?????????????????????¢??I travelled with 'Ubayd Allah ibn 'Adiyy ibn al-Khiyar through Hums. While we were there 'Ubayd Allah said to me: 'Do you wish to go to visit Wahshiyy to ask him how he killed Hamzah'. I said: 'If you want to'. A man said to us: 'You will find him in the courtyard of his house; he is a man who is always drunk. However, if he is sober, he will speak in Arabic and you might find what you are after'. When we got to him, we greeted him and he raised his head. We said: 'We have come to you to tell us about your killing of Hamzah, may Allah have mercy on him'. He said: 'I will relate to you exactly what I related to the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, when he asked me about the same. I was a slave of Jubayr ibn Mut'im ibn 'Adiyy ibn Nawfal whose uncle Tu'aymah ibn 'Adiyy was killed at the Battle of Badr. When the Quraysh marched toward Uhud, Jubayr ibn Mut'im said to me: 'You are free if you kill Hamzah, Muhammad's uncle, as a revenge for the killing of my uncle Tu'aymah'. I went out with them. It is to be remembered that I am an Abyssinian who is expert in throwing spears, like all Abyssinians, and I never missed my target. When the two sides met, I went looking for Hamzah until I saw him in the middle of the army, like a white-and-black camel, slaughtering people with his sword such that nothing stood in his way. By Allah, I was waiting for my moment, hiding behind a rock or tree, so that he drew closer to me, when Siba' ibn 'Abd al-'Uzza passed me and went toward him. When Hamzah, may Allah have mercy on him, saw him, he called him: 'Here, O son of a cutter of clitoris!' Then he struck him on the head and, by Allah, he did not miss. I moved my spear about until I felt comfortable and threw it at him. It caught him in the lower abdomen and the spear came out from his feet. He made a move toward me and then collapsed and I left him to die. I went toward him, retrieved my spear and joined the people at the camp. I did not want to kill anyone else, for I only killed him to gain my freedom. When I went back to Mecca, I was emancipated. I stayed there until Islam spread throughout it upon which I travelled to al-Ta'if. In Ta'if, they sent emissaries to the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, and mentioned that he does not harm emissaries. And so I went with them to the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace. When he saw me, he said: 'Are you Wahshiyy?' and when I answered in the affirmative, he asked again: 'You are the one who killed Hamzah?' I said: 'What happened is exactly as it was related to you'. He said: 'Could you keep your face away from me?' I left. When the Messenger of Allah, Allah bless him and give him peace, died and Musaylimah the liar emerged to the people, I thought to go and kill Musaylimah to cancel out my killing of Hamzah. I went out with people, and what happened to him is now known' ?????????????????????¢??????????????????????.
Dismissed
All that crap to understand the simple 17 words in 16:126, hahahaha, I cannot fukin believe it, how dumb and stupid the majority of the Muslims are and have been for 1400 years
those confused Muslims are telling us that Allah is allowing the mutilation of the dead
farid wrote:
Al-Jalalyn also agrees with this.
After Hamza [b. ?????????????????????¢??Abd al-Muttalib] had been killed and mutilated, and the Prophet (s) had seen him and said, ?????????????????????¢??Verily I will mutilate 70 of them for you?????????????????????¢??, the following was revealed: And if you retaliate, retaliate with the like of what you have been made to suffer; and yet if you endure patiently, [refraining] from revenge, verily that, namely, [that] enduring, is better for the patient. Thus the Prophet (s) refrained [from taking revenge] and made atonement for his oath, as reported by al-Bazzār.
Now I wonder, why the crap above by another Mushrik Muslim is not the same size as the first crap? aren't they tell us the same thing? they both are in agreement, but it seems the first Crapper wanted to impress the confused followers by showing that he can write more, hahahahah
At the end of the day, both Crappers are telling us the Allah is allowing the mutilation of the dead as a way of revenge when the enemy mutilate our deads
What load of crap is that?
Well, if it is coming from clear cut Crappers, then damn right, it has to be full of loads of crap, defaming Mohammed and even defaming Allah
farid wrote:
Lets take a look at tanwir al-miqbas min tafsir ibn Abbas:
No more looks you idiot, you can shove Ibn Abbas up your arse
farid wrote:
(If ye punish) mutilate, (then punish) mutilate (with the like of that wherewith ye were afflicted) with the like of that which your dead were mutilated. (But if ye endure patiently) and abstain from mutilation, (verily it is better for the patient) in the Hereafter.
Thank you Ahmed.
Do not thank me you punk, you are a disgrace to all Muslims
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
Salam all
One of the kafirs of FFI has raised a valid argument against many Muslims:
Cinnamon wrote:
Muhammad and Allah two sacred names for the muslim. So far from their action, I have not seen how a muslim loves his god more than muhammad.
Ahmed says:
The love of Allah cannot be compared to the love of any human, being a son, being a parent or being a messenger, I believe this was the message of every messenger sent by Allah, let's take Mohammed as an example and see what he was saying in his True (100% Sahih) hadith to the people around him:
Say: If you love Allah, then follow me, Allah will love you and forgive you your faults, and Allah is Forgiving, Merciful [Al Quran ; 3:31]
قُلْ إِن كُنتُمْ تُحِبُّونَ اللّهَ فَاتَّبِعُونِي يُحْبِبْكُمُ اللّهُ وَيَغْفِرْ لَكُمْ ذُنُوبَكُمْ وَاللّهُ غَفُورٌ رَّحِيمٌ (31)
-> See the true hadith of Mohammed: Say:, a command from Allah to Mohammed to say, i.e. what we are about to read must be one of the things that Mohammed must have 100% SAID to the people, now, let's read what Mohammed should have said to the people: If you love Allah, then follow me,, HOW CLEAR, Mohammed never said: If you love Allah, then love me,, Mohammed did not only compare his love with the love of Allah, rather he never mentioned his love when it came to the love of Allah, indeed, how any human can love another dead human that never been seen or met?, it never make sense, therefore, for all those who never met Mohammed, all they need to do is to FOLLOW HIM (IN THE QURAN), they do not need to even love him based on the fact that you cannot love someone that you never met, however if some emotional human have developed certain love for Mohammed, then that should be fine, it is in the human nature, as long as they differentiate between the two loves, the true love for Allah, and the emotional Barbie love to Mohammed whom they never met.
Back to the point that I started, for the people who lived with Mohammed, did not even need to love him to gain the love of Allah, they only needed to believe in him and follow him in the belief in Allah, that was clear from Mohammed true saying in the above verse: If you love Allah, then follow me,, and if that is what the people do, then the outcome will be as follow: Allah will love you and forgive you your faults,, and that should be the desired outcome for any believer.
From the above, I agree totally with you that most of the Muslims who developed such unrealistic love to a messenger that they never met, have fell in Satan trap, which is designed to make them mix the two loves to a degree that the two are inseparable, and in many cases the two loves are even equal. _________________ http://free-islam.com
Posted:
Wed 07 Jan, 2009 7:07 pm
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
charleslemartel wrote:
Dear Ahmed and "Truth",
Will you guys please answer the simple questions asked by sum? To make it simpler, I will break it in parts:
1. Does Quran say that Muhammad committed any sin?
2. If yes, what were his sins?
Hope you will not run away from these very simple and straightforward questions.
I am going to answer one of the above question but I dare you that you turn the discussion into a game of mocking the noble prophet
1. Does the Quran say that Muhammed committed any sin?
Answer:
Yes:
That Allah may forgive your past sins and those to follow, and that He completes His favor upon you and guide you to a straight path, [The Quran ; 48:2]
لِيَغْفِرَ لَكَ اللَّهُ مَا تَقَدَّمَ مِنْ ذَنْبِكَ وَمَا تَأَخَّرَ وَيُتِمَّ نِعْمَتَهُ عَلَيْكَ وَيَهْدِيَكَ صِرَاطًا مُسْتَقِيمًا (2)
-> The verse above is directed at Mohammed, see what Allah is telling him after the victory in Mecca at the end of Mohammed mission: That Allah may forgive your past sins and those to follow, clearly Mohammed had past sins and even the verse suggested that there might be future sins to follow
Regarding your second question, I really do not know what the Quran mentioned about some of Mohammed actions may be classified as sins, however in at least 3 occasions the Quran told us that Mohammed faulted, and Allah corrected him as well exposed him in the Quran _________________ http://free-islam.com
Posted:
Fri 09 Jan, 2009 12:10 am
AhmedBahgat Site Admin
Status: Age: 58 Faith: Islam Gender:
Zodiac: Joined: Oct 16, 2006
Posts: 3236 Location: Australia
Post subject:
charleslemartel wrote:
Can you please attempt to answer the second question too?
But I already did, here it is again:
Regarding your second question, I really do not know what the Quran mentioned about some of Mohammed actions may be classified as sins, however in at least 3 occasions the Quran told us that Mohammed faulted, and Allah corrected him as well exposed him in the Quran
charleslemartel wrote:
I know that Allah has not identified Muhammad's sins specifically.
So why you are asking the question then?
Don't you know that I only convey what Allah said in the Quran?
charleslemartel wrote:
But we all know the life history of Muhammad and his various "noble" deeds.
from which source exactly?
from the spin world of the hearsay Jerrry Springer crap that is called man made hadith
or from whatever history mentioned in the Quran?
charleslemartel wrote:
Do you think any of those deeds can be classified as "sins" in the eyes of Allah,
I do not really put myself in that position, to think what it may be in the eyes of Allah, I can tell you what it maybe in my eyes but as you know, I may be wrong as Allah is always right
In my eyes, those three incidents cannot be classfied as sins, rather a mistake that was based on ignorance
charleslemartel wrote:
or do you think that his sins have not been recorded by his followers at all?
I really careless what is recorded by his followers, biing a sin or being a good deed, both must be dismissed in my books, I only take what Allah said about Mohammed or anyone of His prophets for that matter
charleslemartel wrote:
In other words,
Why the hell, in other words?
Just to bloody waste more of my time?
charleslemartel wrote:
is there any action of Muhammad out of all that we know that you do not agree with?
NONE, being good or bad, this is because we cannot be sure if he really did such action or not if its source is your man made crap called Bukhari Springer books of hadith _________________ http://free-islam.com
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