I know mate, but that is what the Persian guy was doing anyway and they totally dismissed him, so I did not want to be repeating the same argument, it would have carried no strength if I have done so, he quickly dismissed me anyway after his shock and his excuse that I do not have a bear, I totally shocked them and took them with complete surprise, and it was very educational process to me to be honest, there will be a lot of valuable information that will be added to this thread, I am really appreciative to what had happened because it has given me the enthusiasm to start this huge research.
Take care
- Sun 26 Oct, 2008 1:57 pm
Post subject:
Salam all
I am not really sure how I will put all the information that I gathered all together, it is indeed horrendous task going through piles of crap, piles of non sense, piles of confusion, piles of contradictions and most importantly piles of Jerry Springer affairs, with the exception of the Quran verses of course, I am glad that I am forced to do this study because I found it very beneficial to me and I hope it would be for many others who are trying hard to restore our religion back to what Allah has sent to us.
One of the things that the hadith apologists resort to when faced with such non sense of hadith that the prophet used to do the rounds with all his 11 or 9 wives in one hour of a day or one hour of a night, one wife after the other and without having a bath in between the rounds, is to say that the prophet must have higher privileges than the rest of the ordinary humans because he is a prophet, of course such privileges suppose to be given from Allah, I actually agree totally with them, that any prophet must have been given some higher privileges than humans because simply, it is enough of a high privilege that they have been chosen by Allah to carry His messages to humanity.
Most of these privileges if not all, I believe must be something to support and give strength to the message carried by the prophets, it will be totally illogical to give privileges that contradict the message carried, we know from the Quran many of these privileges already, like when Moses turned the stick into a snake, or when he split the sea, same with Jesus, Solaiman, Dawood, Nuh and many others had many extraordinary support from Allah that strengthened the message they were sent with.
The wives of all these prophets did not really have vital or significant effect on the message; in fact, the Quran never mentioned the names of any of the wives of all the prophets. We know that two of all those wives are mentioned in the Quran, the wife prophet Lut and the wife of prophet Nuh, were an example of kafir wives bound to hell, who happen to be married to two of the great prophets of Allah. This clearly means that, it is not automatic for any wife of any prophet to be righteous woman because she is only married to a prophet. We can only know if a wife of them was good or bad if Allah explicitly mentioned so in the Quran, for those wives who are never mentioned, we can never know if they were good or bad, only Allah knows , we may guess based on our expectations that they were good, but again we can never be assured, therefore the matter should be avoided due to its non importance. That is the theme of the Quran, hardly talked about those wives with the exception of briefly mentioning the wife of prophet Lut and the wife of prophet Nuh who happened to be two kafir women bound to hell, and mentioning in general the wives of prophet Mohammed but yet in a brief manner, the Quran did not even told us how many wives the prophet really married, i.e. it is unknown.
On the other hand, if those who like Jerry Springer style crap about the wives of many of these prophets then the hearsay hadith books are the place to go, this is what I am going to do today, I will look at both sides of the story, the Quran and the hadith books regarding the wives of prophet Mohammed, the finding is really striking.
I believe that prophet Mohammed had no higher privileges than an ordinary human regarding the martial/sex life, in fact I see the ordinary Muslims have higher privileges than prophet Mohammed in such matter, this is because according to the hadith advocates, an ordinary Muslim can marry as many women as he wishes as long as he does not combine more than 4 wives at any moment of time, even marrying a 1000 wives by an ordinary Muslim will bear no sin under the hadith advocates belief, the hadith advocates also tell us that prophet Mohammed married more than one but he never combined more than 4 wives at any point of time which I do not believe, (they even never told us the exact number of his many wives), on the other hand the Quran told us that prophet Mohammed was restricted at one point of time by Allah not to marry further wives nor replace anyone from the wives he already had:
It is not lawful for you (to marry more) women after this, nor to change them for (other) wives, even if you admired their goodness, except any of whom your oath possess and Allah is over everything a Watcher.
[The Quran ; 33:52]
لَا يَحِلُّ لَكَ النِّسَاءُ مِنْ بَعْدُ وَلَا أَنْ تَبَدَّلَ بِهِنَّ مِنْ أَزْوَاجٍ وَلَوْ أَعْجَبَكَ حُسْنُهُنَّ إِلَّا مَا مَلَكَتْ يَمِينُكَ ۗ وَكَانَ اللَّهُ عَلَىٰ كُلِّ شَيْءٍ رَقِيبًا (52)
-> See the restriction that was enforced upon Mohammed regarding further marriages: It is not lawful for you (to marry more) women after this, nor to change them for (other) wives, even if you admired their goodness,, therefore an ordinary Muslim who may marry as many as he wishes as long as not combining more than 4 wives at the same time at any point of time, has actually higher privilege than prophet Mohammed because Mohammed was ordered not to marry any more at a certain point in time.
The books of hearsay hadith are very high on the sexual life of prophet Mohammed and his wives, despite the Quran tells us that the wives of the prophet were assigned a totally different set of laws laws that clearly warn them against the enjoyment of the life of this world, and as we know that sex is an important part of the enjoyment of the life of this world, let?????????????????????¢??s have a look:
28: O Prophet! Say to your wives: If you desire the life of this world and its adornment, then come, I will give you a provision and allow you to depart a goodly departing.
29: And if you desire Allah and His Messenger and the latter abode, then indeed, Allah has prepared for the doers of good among you a mighty reward.
[The Quran ; 33:28-29]
يَا أَيُّهَا النَّبِيُّ قُلْ لِأَزْوَاجِكَ إِنْ كُنْتُنَّ تُرِدْنَ الْحَيَاةَ الدُّنْيَا وَزِينَتَهَا فَتَعَالَيْنَ أُمَتِّعْكُنَّ وَأُسَرِّحْكُنَّ سَرَاحًا جَمِيلًا (28)
وَإِنْ كُنْتُنَّ تُرِدْنَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ وَالدَّارَ الْآخِرَةَ فَإِنَّ اللَّهَ أَعَدَّ لِلْمُحْسِنَاتِ مِنْكُنَّ أَجْرًا عَظِيمًا (29)
-> How clear is that?, see: O Prophet! Say to your wives: If you desire the life of this world and its adornment, then come, I will give you a provision and allow you to depart a goodly departing., i.e. if that is what they desire (the life of this world and its adornment) then he (the prophet) should have divorced them with kindness. But if they desire the opposite which is, Allah, His messenger and the hearafter, then this is what they will get: And if you desire Allah and His Messenger and the latter abode, then indeed, Allah has prepared for the doers of good among you a mighty reward. , clearly it is not about sex for them, I am sure that the prophet had his share of doing sex with his wives, but that is something that is so private and should be kept between them not being the talk of the town at their time then document it in a book to be the talk of all generations to come.
The set of laws that were governing the wives of the prophet were outlined clearly by Allah:
30: O wives of the prophet! Whoever of you commits a manifest indecency, the punishment will be doubled to her; and that is easy upon Allah.
31: And whoever of you is obedient to Allah and His Messenger and does good, We will give to her, her reward two times, and We have prepared for her an honourable sustenance.
32: O wives of the Prophet! you are not like any other of the women; If you fear Allah, then do not submit in (your) speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease yearn; and say a kind saying.
33: And stay in your houses and do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorance of yore; and keep up prayer, and pay the poor-rate, and obey Allah and His Messenger. Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the house! And to purify you a (thorough) purifying.
34: And remember what is recited in your houses of the signs of Allah and the wisdom; indeed, Allah is Subtile, Acuminated.
[The Quran ; 33:30-34]
يَا نِسَاءَ النَّبِيِّ مَنْ يَأْتِ مِنْكُنَّ بِفَاحِشَةٍ مُبَيِّنَةٍ يُضَاعَفْ لَهَا الْعَذَابُ ضِعْفَيْنِ ۚ وَكَانَ ذَٰلِكَ عَلَى اللَّهِ يَسِيرًا (30)
وَمَنْ يَقْنُتْ مِنْكُنَّ لِلَّهِ وَرَسُولِهِ وَتَعْمَلْ صَالِحًا نُؤْتِهَا أَجْرَهَا مَرَّتَيْنِ وَأَعْتَدْنَا لَهَا رِزْقًا كَرِيمًا (31)
يَا نِسَاءَ النَّبِيِّ لَسْتُنَّ كَأَحَدٍ مِنَ النِّسَاءِ ۚ إِنِ اتَّقَيْتُنَّ فَلَا تَخْضَعْنَ بِالْقَوْلِ فَيَطْمَعَ الَّذِي فِي قَلْبِهِ مَرَضٌ وَقُلْنَ قَوْلًا مَعْرُوفًا (32)
وَقَرْنَ فِي بُيُوتِكُنَّ وَلَا تَبَرَّجْنَ تَبَرُّجَ الْجَاهِلِيَّةِ الْأُولَىٰ ۖ وَأَقِمْنَ الصَّلَاةَ وَآتِينَ الزَّكَاةَ وَأَطِعْنَ اللَّهَ وَرَسُولَهُ ۚ إِنَّمَا يُرِيدُ اللَّهُ لِيُذْهِبَ عَنْكُمُ الرِّجْسَ أَهْلَ الْبَيْتِ وَيُطَهِّرَكُمْ تَطْهِيرًا (33)
وَاذْكُرْنَ مَا يُتْلَىٰ فِي بُيُوتِكُنَّ مِنْ آيَاتِ اللَّهِ وَالْحِكْمَةِ ۚ إِنَّ اللَّهَ كَانَ لَطِيفًا خَبِيرًا (34)
-> See how clear that the wives of the prophet had extra set of laws: O wives of the Prophet! you are not like any other of the women; , if these laws are not obeyed then their punishment will be doubled: O wives of the prophet! Whoever of you commits a manifest indecency, the punishment will be doubled to her; , and if they obey such set of laws then their reward will also be doubled: And whoever of you is obedient to Allah and His Messenger and does good, We will give to her, her reward two times, and We have prepared for her an honourable sustenance. . Here is some of the set of laws that were governing the wives of prophet Mohammed:
A) do not submit in (your) speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease yearn; say a kind saying.
B) stay in your houses
C) do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorance of yore
D) keep up prayer
E) pay the poor-rate
F) obey Allah and His Messenger
G) remember what is recited in your houses of the signs of Allah and the wisdom
Clear, the sex is no where to be highlighted in the above verses, in fact the verses imply that sex between the prophet and them was not an important matter for us to worry about, can you see how verse 33:33 ended: Allah only desires to keep away the uncleanness from you, O people of the house! And to purify you a (thorough) purifying.. The books of hearsay hadith do not care about such purifying, for most writers of these books, it was ok for prophet Mohammed to sleep with all his wives (11 or 9) one after the other in one hour of a day or one hour of a night without having a bath in between.
What is alleged to be done by the prophet has to happen before salat Al Isha, because the same books of hearsay hadith tell us that the prophet did not like to speak to anyone after salat Al Isha, therefore it will not be applicable for him to do the rounds after the last salat with all his wives one after the other, this is an important note, because now the prophet had only the time between salats to manage to satisfy 11 or 9 wives , the books of hearsay hadith tell us that he did not bath in between while we know that the prophet must have bathed before each salat if he was Junub i.e. had sex with any of his wives, this will leave us a gap of about 4 hours to sleep with (say 9 wives) i.e. he needed under half an hour for each wife, for him to get undressed, have sex, get dressed then travel to the next wife in her house, you can imagine how a man like this will be running between the houses to be able to make it without a bath before he has to take a bath to make the next salat, see how their non sense started to be evident. There is far more non sense, now it is about time to look at such hearsay hadith from all the books of hadith
The following are all the hadith I managed to find, regarding the allegation of the prophet doing the rounds with all his wives in an hour of a day or an hour of a night without having a bath in between:
1- Sahih Bukhari
Bukhari published two hearsay hadith:
A) Source (Saudi Arabia ?????????????????????¢?? Ministry of Religion)
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Chain of narrators: Mohammed Ibn Bashar -> Ibn Abi Udai & Yahiya Ibn Said -> Shuba -> Ibrahim Ibn Mohammed Ibn Almontashir -> Mohammed Ibn Almontashir -> Aysha said:
The meaning of Al Matn (the content):: Blessing of Allah upon Aba Abdul Rahaman (prophet Mohammed), I used to purify the messenger of Allah salla Allah alaihi wa salam, then he YATUF over all his wives, then he gets up in the morning as clean as ever and even goodness is falling off him.
Ahmed says:
I have left the word YATUF untranslated, this is because the word can mean a few things, for example it can mean to visit, or to serve, or to rotate, or to have sex.
Now, I am not going to select which meaning of the above that Bukhari meant in his hadith # 259, I will leave that to the other associated book that is based on his Sahih which is called Fatih Al Bari Bi Sharh Sahih Al Bukhari, see above in the image (under the hadith box):
قوله : ( فيطوف )
كناية عن الجماع وبذلك تظهر مناسبة الحديث للترجمة . وقال الإسماعيلي : يحتمل أن يراد به الجماع وأن يراد به تجديد العهد بهن . قلت : والاحتمال الأول يرجحه الحديث الثاني ; لقوله فيه " أعطي قوة ثلاثين " و " يطوف " في الأول مثل " يدور " في الثاني .
-> They say above regarding the word YATUF, that it means indirectly (Jamaa, i.e. a man and a woman have sex together), they also say that such understanding will make the hadith most suited according to the interpretation, a man named Ismaili said that it is possible that it means sex, however it may also mean, renewing his covenant between himself and his wives one after the other. The author of this Bukhari associated book said: I say that it is more probable that it means sex as confirmed by the second hadith in the same subject that Bukhari published, in which we read that the prophet was given the sexual power of 30 men, despite that we do not read the word YATUF in such second Bukhari hadith, rather we read instead the word YADUR, yet YADUR should mean exactly as YATUF which is to have sex with a woman.
Ahmed says:
Clearly, the authors of such books concluded that the word YATUF means Jamaa, which means sex between a man and a woman, i.e. the message of such Bukhari hadith is simply as follow:
Aysha (one of the wives of the prophet) exposed a secret about the sexual life of her husband (the prophet), by telling Mohammed Ibn Almontashir that she used to purify the prophet then he goes and does the rounds with all his wives one after the other, then gets up in the morning as clean as ever. Obviously Mohammed Ibn Almontashir himself exposed such sexual information to another and the chain continued and quickly it was the talk of whole bloody town as we will see later on inshaallah.
Let?????????????????????¢??s look at the second hadith that Bukhari published regarding such matter:
B) Source (Saudi Arabia ?????????????????????¢?? Ministry of Religion)
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Chain of narrators: Mohammed Ibn Bashar -> Maaz Ibn Hashim -> Hashim Abi Maaz -> Qatadah -> Anas Ibn Malik said:
The meaning of Al Matn (the content):: The prophet salla Allah alaihi wa sallam. YADUR over his wives in an hour of a night or an hour of a day, and they were (the wives) eleven wives. So I said to Anas: Did he manage to bear it? Inas replied: We used to talk together that he was given the sexual power of 30 men
Sayd Ibn Qatadah said that Inas said: They were 9 wives
Ahmed says:
Again, I left the word YADUR untranslated, this the word to which the first hadith by Bukkari # 259 was linked it and then been alleged that it means the same meaning as YATUF, the word YADUR actually means Circulate, and I agree that Yadur = Yatuf = Circulate
In the explanation of Bukhari hadith # 260, the associated book of Fatih Al Bari alleged the following:
وقد سرد الدمياطي - في السيرة التي جمعها - من اطلع عليه من أزواجه ممن دخل بها أو عقد عليها فقط أو طلقها قبل الدخول أو خطبها ولم يعقد عليها فبلغت ثلاثين وفي المختارة من وجه آخر عن أنس " تزوح خمس عشرة : دخل منهن بإحدى عشرة ومات عن تسع " . وسرد أسماءهن أيضا أبو الفتح اليعمري ثم مغلطاي فزدن على العدد الذي ذكره الدمياطي وأنكر ابن القيم ذلك . والحق أن الكثرة المذكورة محمولة على اختلاف في بعض الأسماء وبمقتضى ذلك تنقص العدة . والله أعلم .
Briefly, what they say above that, there were allegations that the prophet married or engaged to up to 30 women, while he only married 15 women of those 30, and consumed the marriage with 11 women only of those 15 and when he died there were 9 women of those 11 women married to him, therefore the count of his wives is doubtful and can not be known, and Allah knows best.
Ahmed says:
Indeed, Allah knows best how many wives the prophet married. If it was so doubtful that they concluded that his wives count can not be known, why the authors of these books included such doubtful information? What we are learning exactly from such hadith by Bukhari and its explanation by its associated book Fatih Al Bari?
Please be aware, while non of the two hadith by Bukhari mentioned directly that the prophet did not have a bath in between, Bukhari still titled the sub chapter containg these two hadith as:
إذا جامع ثم عاد ومن دار على نسائه في غسل واحد
I.e. When the prophet had sex and circulated over his wives with one bath
CLEARLY, no one can deny that this is what Bukhari meant from the title written by him.
Let me show you another useless information from the same associated book Fatih Al bari, trying to explain such hadith:
قوله : ( أوكان )
بفتح الواو هو مقول قتادة والهمزة للاستفهام ومميز ثلاثين محذوف أي ثلاثين رجلا ووقع في رواية الإسماعيلي من طريق أبي موسى من معاذ بن هشام " أربعين " بدل ثلاثين وهي شاذة من هذا الوجه لكن في مراسيل طاوس مثل ذلك وزاد " في الجماع " وفي صفة الجنة لأبي نعيم من طريق مجاهد مثله وزاد " من رجال أهل الجنة " ومن حديث عبد الله بن عمر ورفعه " أعطيت قوة أربعين في البطش والجماع " وعند أحمد والنسائي وصححه الحاكم من حديث زيد بن أرقم رفعه " إن الرجل من أهل الجنة ليعطى قوة مائة في الأكل والشرب والجماع والشهوة " فعلى هذا يكون حساب قوة نبينا أربعة آلاف .
In short, they are trying to explain the question of how the prophet managed to do that?, i.e. doing the rounds with all his wives one after the other in one hour of a day or one hour of a night, they say that in another haditn through another 3 different narrators, it was said that the prophet was given the sexual power of 40 men, but they say it is a strange story, however they also claim that in another story, Abdullah Ibn Omar said that the prophet said: I was given equivalent to 40 men in strength and sex. In another story published by Ahmed Ibn hanabl and Al Nisaai, it was said that the garden dwellers will get the magnitude of 100 man in eating, drinking, sex, and desire, therefore the prophet final strength will be 40 x 100 = 4000 men
Ahmed says:
Holy non sense man, can you really believe such non sense and things that they alleged about Allah without any knowledge, this is exactly what Iblis wanted them to do and they accepted his invitation, they are saying about Allah things that He never said, see how they reached the figure of 4000 men that will be the strength of Mohammed in the heaven, for us however, we will have in there the strength of 100 men.
See how the associated book of Bukhari Fatih Al Bari contradicted the book of Bukhari itself while it suppose to be explaining it, what a shocker of the stupidity by such author, Bukhari hadith says 30 men, while the associated book Fatih Al Bari in Explaining Sahih Al Bukhari says 40 men.
What did we learn from such two hadith so far? Absolutely nothing other than the stupidity and usefullnessless of some Sahih hadith that should have never been included in his collection, the stupidty and confusion continues in the associated book Fatih Al bari, this is the last paragraph in it, trying to explain Bukhari hadith # 260:
قوله : ( وقال سعيد )
هو ابن أبي عروبة كذا للجميع إلا أن الأصيلي قال : إنه وقع في نسخة " شعبة " بدل سعيد قال " وفي عرضنا على أبي زيد بمكة سعيد " قال أبو علي الجياني وهو الصواب . قلت : وقد ذكرنا قبل أن المصنف وصل رواية سعيد وأما رواية شعبة لهذا الحديث عن قتادة فقد وصلها الإمام أحمد . قال ابن المنير : ليس في حديث دورانه على نسائه دليل على الترجمة فيحتمل أنه طاف عليهن واغتسل في خلال ذلك عن كل فعلة غسلا . قال والاحتمال في رواية الليلة أظهر منه في الساعة . قلت : التقييد بالليلة ليس صريحا في حديث عائشة وأما حديث أنس فحيث جاء فيه التصريح بالليلة قيد الاغتسال بالمرة الواحدة . كذا وقع في روايات للنسائي وابن خزيمة وابن حبان ووقع التقييد بالغسل الواحد من غير ذكر الليلة في روايات أخرى لهم ولمسلم وحيث جاء في حديث أنس التقييد بالساعة لم يحتج إلى تقييد الغسل بالمرة ; لأنه يتعذر أو يتعسر وحيث جاء فيها تكرار المباشرة والغسل معا وعرف من هذا أن قوله في الترجمة " في غسل واحد " أشار به إلى ما ورد في بعض طرق الحديث وإن لم يكن منصوصا فيما أخرجه كما جرت به عادته ويحمل المطلق في حديث عائشة على المقيد في حديث أنس ليتوافقا ومن لازم جماعهن في الساعة أو الليلة الواحدة عود الجماع كما ترجم به والله أعلم . واستدل به المصنف في كتاب النكاح على استحباب الاستكثار من النساء وأشار فيه إلى أن القسم لم يكن واجبا عليه وهو قول طوائف من أهل العلم , وبه جزم الإصطخري من الشافعية والمشهور عندهم وعند الأكثرين الوجوب ويحتاج من قال به إلى الجواب عن هذا الحديث فقيل : كان ذلك برضا صاحبة النوبة كما استأذنهن أن يمرض في بيت عائشة ويحتمل أن يكون ذلك كان يحصل عند استيفاء القسمة ثم يستأنف القسمة , وقيل كان ذلك عند إقباله من سفر ; لأنه كان إذا سافر أقرع بينهن فيسافر بمن يخرج سهمها فإذا انصرف استأنف وهو أخص من الاحتمال الثاني والأول أليق بحديث عائشة وكذا الثاني ويحتمل أن يكون ذلك كان يقع قبل وجوب القسمة ثم ترك بعدها . وأغرب ابن العربي فقال : إن الله خص نبيه بأشياء منها أنه أعطاه ساعة في كل يوم لا يكون لأزواجه فيها حق يدخل فيها على جميعهن فيفعل ما يريد ثم يستقر عند من لها النوبة وكانت تلك الساعة بعد العصر فإن اشتغل عنها كانت بعد المغرب , ويحتاج إلى ثبوت ما ذكره مفصلا . وفي هذا الحديث من الفوائد غير ما تقدم ما أعطي النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم من القوة على الجماع وهو دليل على كمال البنية وصحة الذكورية والحكمة في كثرة أزواجه أن الأحكام التي ليست ظاهرة يطلعن عليها فينقلنها وقد جاء عن عائشة من ذلك الكثير الطيب , ومن ثم فضلها بعضهم على الباقيات . واستدل به ابن التين لقول مالك بلزوم الظهار من الإماء بناء على أن المراد بالزائدتين على التسع مارية وريحانة وقد أطلق على الجميع لفظ نسائه تعقب بأن الإطلاق المذكور للتغليب كما تقدم فليس فيه حجة لما ادعى واستدل به ابن المنير على جواز وطء الحرة بعد الأمة من غير غسل بينهما ولا غيره والمنقول عن مالك أنه لا يتأكد الاستحباب في هذه الصورة ويمكن أن يكون ذلك وقع لبيان الجواز فلا يدل على عدم الاستحباب .
Ahmed says:
The above is nothing but piles of confusion and crap, let me summerize it to you in points:
a- It is still a possibility that he the prophet had a bath each time he had sex with one of his wives at her place
b- Doing the rounds in an hour of a night as stated in the hadith of Aysha (Bukhari hadith # 259) is not highly possible but with Anas hadith (Bukhari hadith # 260), it was stated that if the prophet was doing it at an hour of a night then taking a bath between the rounds was compulsory (I have never read that in the hadith to be honest), this may be confirmed by looking at the hadith by Nisaai and Khuzaimah where doing the rounds without a bath in between rounds at night was not mentioned at all, i.e. Nisaai and Khuzaimah did not mention the night in their published hadith.
c- The Book of Nikah (marriage) by Bukhari stated that it is desirable to have many women.
The most bizarre thing I read above is this:
d- a strange story by Ibn Al Arabi who said that Allah has allocated an hour for the prophet every day where he does with his wives whatever he wants while they should have no right whatsoever, this hour was between the Asr (afternoon) and the Maghrib (sunset).
e- There is a lesson in the above hadith, which is how healthy, full of manhood, full of wisdom in the many marriages, the prophet was.
f- One guy named Ibn Almunir suggested that it is ok to sleep with a free woman after sleeping with an enslaved woman witout having any bath or else in between.
Can you really believe such non sense?, we learn absolutely nothing from it which clearly contradict the Quran verses from sura 33 that I walked you through above. nor that not having a bath between the rounds while sleeping with differnt wife in each round carries any wisdom, rather sickness.
How dare such people whom are called Ulamaa did such things to our great religion, Allah, our prophet, his wives and consequently all of us (Muslims)?
This is just the beginning, we have over 20 hadith to walk through, next will be what Muslim (the student of Bukhari) had to say regarding the same matter in his Sahih
Salam
- Sun 26 Oct, 2008 9:42 pm
Post subject:
Salam all
As you have seen so far, the hadith advocates can not deny that Bukhari included such non sense in his Sahih book, it is ironic that many of those hard core sectarians do not even know that such hadith exist in these books, the kafirs however know better than them and know well that such non sense exist, and they know well how the Muslims admire Bukhari and almost worship his Sahih book, and we should know that this will make it so easy for the kafirs to corner the Muslims and humiliate them really bad by defaming their great prophet whom we are told about by Allah that he was of a sublime morality, I can assure you that a man of a sublime morality will never have sex with his 4 wives one after the other while not having a complete bath in between.
Isn?????????????????????¢??t strange that they say Bukhari did an amazing job to collect the authentic hadith, then we find his student Al Hajaj Ibn Muslim doing the same exact thing? Clearly it implies a game of fame, you become famous and praised if you talk a lot about the prophet, despite the prophet warned them not to talk a lot about him after his death. This is what their books said, not what I said as I have shown in my article Let?????????????????????¢??s talk Ibn Magih
Let?????????????????????¢??s see what Muslim had to publish regarding such allegation and see if we may learn something from it:
2- Sahih Muslim
Muslim published three hearsay hadith, you know he needed to justify his work after Bukhari did the exact same thing before him, but Bukhari published only two hadith, so Muslim needed three to better him, exactly like in court, you need some notice of motion to lodge an appeal, therefore new evidences must be presented otherwise your motion of appeal will be rejected before even looking at it, what a game, Ahmed Ibn Hanbal did far better than the two, Ahmed Ibn Hanbal published over 11 hadith related to same allegation and we know well that the more you talk the more chance you may contradict yourself, and that is what happened with Ahmed Ibn Hanbal, he clearly contradicted himself as we will see inshaallah when we reach his book but let?????????????????????¢??s concentrate on Sahih Muslim for now and read what he has to publish in his three hadith:
A) Source (Saudi Arabia ?????????????????????¢?? Ministry of Religion)
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Chain of narrators: Saeed Ibn Mansour & Abu Kamil -> Abi Awana -> Ibrahim Ibn Mohammed Ibn Almontashir -> Mohammed Ibn Almontashir that he asked Abdullah Ibn Omar concerning the man who purifies himself so he is starting his morning while as clean as ever, so Abdullah Ibn Omar said:
The meaning of Al Matn (the content):: There is noting to me dearer than such, I always desire to purify myself and the goodness like be falling of me. Aysha entered at this moment so I (Mohammed Ibn Almontashir) informed her with what Ibn Omar said, so she said, I used to purify the prophet during his ritual time then he TAFA over all his wives then he waked up in the morning as clean as ever.
Ahmed says:
I also left the word TAFA which is the past tense of YATUF untranslated, and as we know now through Mister Bukhari and his associated book Fatih Al Bari that YATUF means circulating over his wives having sex.
The above hadith by Muslim # 2056 is similar to the hadith by his teacher Bukhari # 259, however it can not be the same incident because in Bukhari we never read about such sudden entry by Aysha over a group of men (a clear contradiction to the Quran 33:53 as we will see soon) talking about purifying the self and all of a sudden she changes the subject into sex between the prophet and his wives, HOW DISGUSTING, it simply means that Aysha was adamant on exposing such so private and sexual information about something that has absolutely no reason to be known to any Muslim, let me take the chance and show you a verse from the Quran that came to my mind now:
O you who believe! do not enter the houses of the Prophet unless permission is given to you for a meal, not waiting for its cooking being finished-- but when you are invited, enter, and when you have taken the food, then disperse-- not seeking to listen to talk; surely this gives the Prophet trouble, but he forbears from you, and Allah does not forbear from the truth And when you ask of them any goods, ask of them from behind a curtain; this is purer for your hearts and (for) their hearts; and it does not behove you that you should give trouble to the Messenger of Allah, nor that you should marry his wives after him ever; surely this is grievous in the sight of Allah.
[The Quran ; 33:53]
يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لَا تَدْخُلُوا بُيُوتَ النَّبِيِّ إِلَّا أَنْ يُؤْذَنَ لَكُمْ إِلَىٰ طَعَامٍ غَيْرَ نَاظِرِينَ إِنَاهُ وَلَٰكِنْ إِذَا دُعِيتُمْ فَادْخُلُوا فَإِذَا طَعِمْتُمْ فَانْتَشِرُوا وَلَا مُسْتَأْنِسِينَ لِحَدِيثٍ ۚ إِنَّ ذَٰلِكُمْ كَانَ يُؤْذِي النَّبِيَّ فَيَسْتَحْيِي مِنْكُمْ ۖ وَاللَّهُ لَا يَسْتَحْيِي مِنَ الْحَقِّ ۚ وَإِذَا سَأَلْتُمُوهُنَّ مَتَاعًا فَاسْأَلُوهُنَّ مِنْ وَرَاءِ حِجَابٍ ۚ ذَٰلِكُمْ أَطْهَرُ لِقُلُوبِكُمْ وَقُلُوبِهِنَّ ۚ وَمَا كَانَ لَكُمْ أَنْ تُؤْذُوا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ وَلَا أَنْ تَنْكِحُوا أَزْوَاجَهُ مِنْ بَعْدِهِ أَبَدًا ۚ إِنَّ ذَٰلِكُمْ كَانَ عِنْدَ اللَّهِ عَظِيمًا (53)
-> Dear brothers and sisters, the verse above struck me hard, I swear by the mighty Allah, I just discovered something new in it, I will use Shakir translation for now.
-> Firstly the reason I thought about this verse is to show how sensitive the prophet was regarding those who enter his house while not been permitted do so, the people were seeking one main thing, which is to be fed, SEE HOW GENEROUS OUR NOBLE PROPHET MOHAMMED WAS, that is how always the Quran portraies him, unlike the stories of the man made hadith, so the verse above is telling such people seeking food, not to enter the house before a permission is given from the prophet, it is like the people felt that Mohammed is a public property that is owned by all of them , how stupid, and when permission is given and they entered and been fed, they should leave straight away, see: يَا أَيُّهَا الَّذِينَ آمَنُوا لَا تَدْخُلُوا بُيُوتَ النَّبِيِّ إِلَّا أَنْ يُؤْذَنَ لَكُمْ إِلَىٰ طَعَامٍ غَيْرَ نَاظِرِينَ إِنَاهُ وَلَٰكِنْ إِذَا دُعِيتُمْ فَادْخُلُوا فَإِذَا طَعِمْتُمْ فَانْتَشِرُوا , i.e. O you who believe! do not enter the houses of the Prophet unless permission is given to you for a meal, not waiting for its cooking being finished-- but when you are invited, enter, and when you have taken the food, then disperse . Food was not the only thing these people were seeking rather food and to hear HADITH, this is the shocking surprise I learnt for the first time from this amazing verse 33:53, I always claimed that the hadith was never mentioned in the Quran but it seems that I was wrong, CLEARLLY IN THIS VERSE THE HEARSAY HADITH IS MENTIONED, the verse warn the people who were allowed inside the houses of the prophet to be fed, from even SEEKING ANY HADITH FROM MOHAMMED, see, what it say: وَلَا مُسْتَأْنِسِينَ لِحَدِيثٍ , Wa La Mustaniseen Li Hadith, i.e. not seeking to listen to talk , this in effect means that the hadith those people were seeking IS NOT IMPORTANT, in fact the verse even tells us that Mohammed was really hurt when people seek his talk but he never let them down so he was falling shy to them and always talked to them, see: إِنَّ ذَٰلِكُمْ كَانَ يُؤْذِي النَّبِيَّ فَيَسْتَحْيِي مِنْكُمْ , i.e. surely this gives the Prophet trouble, but he forbears from you , imagine now the prophet knows that after his death we have man made books called Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim, and in each we read that one of his wives was talking directly to different men and telling them that the the prophet used to go around doing the rounds in an hour of a day or an hour of a night and he wakes up as clean as ever, what verse 33:53 says next is shocking and is a big blow to Bukhari and Muslim and their Sahih hadith # 259 and # 2056 respectively, see what we read next in the verse: وَإِذَا سَأَلْتُمُوهُنَّ مَتَاعًا فَاسْأَلُوهُنَّ مِنْ وَرَاءِ حِجَابٍ ۚ ذَٰلِكُمْ أَطْهَرُ لِقُلُوبِكُمْ وَقُلُوبِهِنَّ , i.e. And when you ask of them (the wives of the prophet) any goods, ask of them from behind a curtain; this is purer for your hearts and (for) their hearts; . HOWEVER we see, Bukhari and his student Muslim portraying one of our Mothers (Aysha) involved in shocking sexual secrets between Mohammed and his wives, that she directly tell other men degrading her husband bad and shows him doing the rounds with all his wives one after the other without having a bath in between, how sad that would be for prophet Mohammed?, see what the verse is telling us next: وَمَا كَانَ لَكُمْ أَنْ تُؤْذُوا رَسُولَ اللَّهِ , i.e. and it does not behove you that you should harm the Messenger of Allah , I used harm instead of give trouble to because harm is more accurate, then the verse tells us another specific law that only applies to the wives of the prophet: وَلَا أَنْ تَنْكِحُوا أَزْوَاجَهُ مِنْ بَعْدِهِ أَبَدًا ۚ إِنَّ ذَٰلِكُمْ كَانَ عِنْدَ اللَّهِ عَظِيمًا , i.e. nor that you should marry his wives after him ever; surely this is grievous in the sight of Allah.
This verse is amazing, it has plenty of information that clearly contradict the context of Bukhari and Muslims hadith . I love the Quran, it indeed makes for me everything religious, clear
Let?????????????????????¢??s move on to the second hadith by Muslim:
B) Source (Saudi Arabia ?????????????????????¢?? Ministry of Religion)
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Chain of narrators: Yahya Ibn habib Alharty -> Khalid Ibn Alharith -> Shouba .> Ibrahim Ibn Mohammed Ibn Almontashir -> Mohammed Ibn Almontashir about Aysha that she said:
The meaning of Al Matn (the content):: Is identical to Bukhari hadith # 259, therefore for Bukhari and Muslim what is been alleged about Aysha by all those men must be truthful. The hadith above is using the same word YATUF
This part of Nawawi explanation to such hadith:
قولها : ( ثم يطوف على نسائه )
قد يقال : قد قال الفقهاء : أقل القسم ليلة لكل امرأة فكيف طاف على الجميع في ليلة واحدة ؟ وجوابه من وجهين : أحدهما : أن هذا كان برضاهن , ولا خلاف في جوازه برضاهن كيف كان , والثاني : أن القسم في حق النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم هل كان واجبا في الدوام ؟ فيه خلاف لأصحابنا , قال أبو سعيد الإصطخري : لم يكن واجبا , وإنما كان يقسم بالسوية , ويقرع بينهن تكرما وتبرعا لا وجوبا , وقال الأكثرون : كان واجبا , فعلى قول الإصطخري لا إشكال . والله أعلم .
قد يقال : قد قال الفقهاء : أقل القسم ليلة لكل امرأة فكيف طاف على الجميع في ليلة واحدة ؟ وجوابه من وجهين : أحدهما : أن هذا كان برضاهن , ولا خلاف في جوازه برضاهن كيف كان , والثاني : أن القسم في حق النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم هل كان واجبا في الدوام ؟ فيه خلاف لأصحابنا , قال أبو سعيد الإصطخري : لم يكن واجبا , وإنما كان يقسم بالسوية , ويقرع بينهن تكرما وتبرعا لا وجوبا , وقال الأكثرون : كان واجبا , فعلى قول الإصطخري لا إشكال . والله أعلم .
Suggests that the Fuqaha (the experienced Ulama) questioned the fact that it was known that the prophet allocated one night per wife, so how come he did all of them in one hour of a night?, they came up with two possibilities:
1) The prophet was trying to please them and there is no doubt that the prophet was always keen to do so
2) The allocation of his time to each wife was an absolute right to the prophet and he was totally free to divide it the way he wants all the time. They then said that there is a disagreement on such possibility, some see that it was not an absolute right all the time while others say that it was done equally between them, so what the second group said is acceptable and should have no disagreement, and Allah knows best
Ahmed says:
How confusing, contradictory and useless all such non sense, I am really puzzled, what all that should teach us about Allah and His religion?
Is that what verses 33:30-34 are talking about regarding the wives of the prophets whom suppose to be the mothers of the believers, let me remind you with our mothers suppose to have been doing:
A) do not submit in (your) speech, lest he in whose heart is a disease yearn; say a kind saying.
B) stay in your houses
C) do not display your finery like the displaying of the ignorance of yore
D) keep up prayer
E) pay the poor-rate
F) obey Allah and His Messenger
G) remember what is recited in your houses of the signs of Allah and the wisdom
[From the Quran ; 33:30-34]
C) Source (Saudi Arabia ?????????????????????¢?? Ministry of Religion)
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Chain of narrators: Abu Karib -> Wakee -> Muser & Sufian -> Ibrahim -> I brahim Ibn Mohammed Ibn Almontashir -> Mohammed Ibn Almontashir that he asked Abdullah Ibn Omar concerning the man who purifies himself so he is starting his morning while as clean as ever, so Abdullah Ibn Omar said:
The meaning of Al Matn (the content):: There is noting to me dearer than such, I always desire to purify myself and the goodness be like falling of me. Aysha entered at this moment so I (Mohammed Ibn Almontashir) informed her with what Ibn Omar said, so she said, I used to purify the prophet during his ritual time then he TAFA over all his wives then he waked up in the morning as clean as ever.
Ahmed says:
This hadith by Muslim # 2058 is identical to his hadith # 2056, only the chain of narraters changed from Ibrahim, so it was totally useless by Muslim to include it, but as I said it seems that he needed an extra hadith to better his teacher Bukhari, so his sahih book is justified
Here you have it from both Bukhari and Muslim two sahihs, the most authentic books after the book of Allah as the secteraian Muslims always claim.
The 5 hadith by Bukhari and Muslim proved nothing but the following:
That Bukhari and Muslim believed the hearsay hadith and allegations by a bunch of men about one of our mothers who was one of the wives of our noble prophet, in which she also alleged some private and sexual information which is so demeaning to the noble prophet and his wives, so demeaning by showing the following:
1) Our noble prophet treating his wives as sexual objects
2) Our noble prophet is so sexually active that he used to do the rounds with all his wives one after the other in an hour of a day or an hour of a night while not having a bath between the rounds
3) Our mothers (the wives of the prophet) were so cheap to accept that a man who has just slept with other women to sleep with them without having a bath first, certainly they must have known in advance that he did not have a bath, it was the talk of the whole town.
4) One of our mothers Aysha was actively involved in discussing sexual secrets about the prophet directly with a bunch of men while the Quran ordered all the believers at the time that if they ask any good from them it should be asked from behind a shield
That?????????????????????¢??s it for Bukhari and Muslim, I will move next to the good friend of Bukhari, Ahmed Ibn Hanbal who himself was part of such fame game called hadith, but before I go, I will leave you with a few short Quran verses in which the prophet was commanded by Allah to do the following:
1: O you who are clothed!
2: Arise and warn,
3: And your Lord do magnify,
4: And your garments do purify,
5: And uncleanness do shun,
[The Quran ; 74:1-5]
يَا أَيُّهَا الْمُدَّثِّرُ (1)
قُمْ فَأَنْذِرْ (2)
وَرَبَّكَ فَكَبِّرْ (3)
وَثِيَابَكَ فَطَهِّرْ (4)
وَالرُّجْزَ فَاهْجُرْ (5)
-> See how clear the commands given to prophet Mohammed:
O you who are clothed! , arise and warn, and your Lord do magnify, and your garments do purify, and uncleanness do shun.
In no way that sleeping with 9 or 11 wives in an hour of a day or an hour of a night and without having a bath in between can be any of the commands we read above in verses 74:1-5, in fact the action of doing so at least contradicts the following commands: and your garments do purify, and uncleanness do shun.
Salam
- Tue 28 Oct, 2008 6:13 pm
Post subject:
Salam all
Today we will look at what Ahmed Ibn Hanbal published in his book (Musanad Ahmed):
3- Musanad Ahmed
Ahmed published about 11 hadith repeating and contradicting everyone else including himself, we learnt from the allegations of Bukhari and Muslim hadith that the prophet used to do the rounds with all his wives one after the other in an hour of a night or one hour of a day without having a bath in between, i.e. with one bath, which is the first bath before he sleeps with his first wife.
Ahmed Ibn Hanbal agreed with Bukhari and Muslim when he published the following hadith:
A) Source (Saudi Arabia ?????????????????????¢?? Ministry of Religion)
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Chain of narrators: Hashim -> Hamid -> Anas Ibn Malik said::
The meaning of Al Matn (the content):: The prophet salla Allah alaihi wa sallam used to YATUF over all his wives in one night and with one bath only .
Ahmed says:
Clearly, Ahmed Ibn Hanbal agreed with Bukhari and Muslim allegations based on what Hashim said which is based on what he heard from Hamid which is based on what Inas Ibn Malik said. Ironically Ahmed Ibn Hanbal published other hadith which contradict all these men, Bukhari, Muslim, himself, and all those men who gossiped about the prophet as we will see soon inshaallah
B) Source (Saudi Arabia ?????????????????????¢?? Ministry of Religion)
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Chain of narrators: Abu Kamil-> Hammad -> Thabit -> Anas Ibn Malik said::
The meaning of Al Matn (the content):: The prophet salla Allah alaihi wa sallam used to TAFA over all his wives in one day.
Ahmed says:
If you look at the above two hadith by Ahmed, hadith # 11508 and # 12171, you should notice that it started by Inas Ibn Malik, Anas said such allegation to Hamid & Thabit (the two men who transferred such hadith from him) either in one incident or in two different incidents, there is no other possibility, however if you look closely at each possibility you should recognise that at least one of these three men were not telling the full truth, let me prove it to you:
-> The first hadith # 11508 (transferred by Hamid from Anas) specifically stated that it was night time while the prophet had one bath only (i.e. no bath in between the rounds)
-> The second hadith # 12171 (transferred by Thabit from Anas) does not state that it was night time rather day time as well it never mentioned that the prophet had one bath only (i.e. we can not know if the prophet took a bath in between the rounds or not)
This means the following:
1) Either, Hamid was not telling the full truth
2) Or, Thabit was not telling the full truth
3) Or, Inas was telling Hamid something while telling Thabit something else and suppose to be telling them the same thing
Whichever possibility you want to go for out of the three above, it will always mean one thing, that the hearsay hadith by at least one of these people is not stating the full truth and can not be trusted
The above finding will become clearer as we go through the rest of Ahmed Ibn hanbal hadith:
C) Source (Saudi Arabia ?????????????????????¢?? Ministry of Religion)
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Chain of narrators: Abdul Aziz Ibn Alsamad Alamy -> Saeed -> Qatadah -> Anas Ibn Malik said::
The meaning of Al Matn (the content):: The prophet salla Allah alaihi wa sallam used to YATUF over all his wives in one night.
Ahmed says:
See how Inas Ibn Malik was telling every man he met in town about such non sense, yet we read in the above hadith # 12240 something different to what we read in the other two hadith:
-> The first hadith # 11508 (transferred by Hamid from Anas) specifically stated that it was night time while the prophet had one bath only (i.e. no bath in between the rounds)
-> The second hadith # 12171 (transferred by Thabit from Anas) does not state that it was night time rather day time as well it never mentioned that the prophet had one bath only (i.e. we can not know if the prophet took a bath in between the rounds or not)
-> The third hadith # 12240 (transferred by Qatadah from Anas) does state that it was night time but it never mentioned that the prophet had one bath only (i.e. we can not know if the prophet took a bath in between the rounds or not)
This means the following:
1) Either, Hamid was not telling the full truth
2) Or, Thabit was not telling the full truth
3) Or, Qatadah was not telling the whole truth
4) Or, Inas was telling Hamid something while telling Thabit something else and while telling Qatadah yet something else while he suppose to be telling them the same thing
No one can argue that the following three actions are different:
i) Doing the rounds at night with one bath and not having a bath in between, (Hadith Ahmed Ibn Hanbal # 11508)
ii) Doing the rounds at day, (Hadith Ahmed Ibn Hanbal # 12171)
iii) Doing the rounds at night, (Hadith Ahmed Ibn Hanbal # 12240)
D) Source (Saudi Arabia ?????????????????????¢?? Ministry of Religion)
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Chain of narrators: Abdul Rahman -> Hammad Ibn Salmah -> Thabit -> Anas Ibn Malik said::
The meaning of Al Matn (the content):: The prophet salla Allah alaihi wa sallam used to TAFA over all his wives in one night with one bath.
Ahmed says:
See how we have been confused to what exactly the prophet used to do that is if he really did it from the first place?
This hadith # 12459 suppose to be what Hammad heard from Thabit as we read in hadith # 12171, however in this hadith Hammad said to Abdul Rahman something else :
-> The second hadith # 12171 (transferred by Hammad) does not state that it was night time rather day time as well it never mentioned that the prophet had only one bath (i.e. we can not know if the prophet took bath in between the rounds or not)
-> The fourth hadith # 12459 (transferred by Hammad toAbdul Rahman) does state that it was night time and it also tells us that the prophet had only one bath (i.e. the prophet had no bath between the rounds)
How contradictory my friends? This means the following:
1) Either, Hammad was not telling the full truth
2) Or, Thabit was not telling the full truth
3) Or, Abdul Rahman was not telling the whole truth
No one can argue that the following two actions are different:
i) Doing the rounds at day, (Hadith Ahmed Ibn Hanbal # 12171)
ii) Doing the rounds at night with one bath, (Hadith Ahmed Ibn Hanbal # 12459)
I will continue the rest of Ahmed Ibn Hanbal hadith later inshaallah, when we will see clearly other hadith that he published and yet we read in them something new that contradicts what we read so far, we will read in it that the prophet indeed had a bath between each round as well he stated that such way is purer, cleaner and better
Salam
- Wed 29 Oct, 2008 8:10 am
Post subject:
Good morning all
Today we will continue looking at what Ahmed Ibn Hanbal published in his book (Musanad Ahmed), we so far from his first 4 hadith, can not reach a conclusion regarding the following:
1) Did the prophet do the rounds at day time with no bath in between?
2) Did the prophet do the rounds at day time, period?
3) Did the prophet do the rounds at night time with no bath in between?
4) Did the prophet do the rounds at night time, period?
In fact after all such confusion, we should add the following question
5) Did the prophet really do what was alleged?
3- Musanad Ahmed continues
An example of how the words should have been transferred accurately is when we look at the following hadith:
A) Source (Saudi Arabia ?????????????????????¢?? Ministry of Religion)
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Chain of narrators: Ismael -> Hamid -> bn Malik said::
The meaning of Al Matn (the content):: The prophet salla Allah alaihi wa sallam used to YATUF over all his wives in one night and with one bath only.
Ahmed says:
Clearly, the alleged hadith # 12499 above is identical to the first hadith # 11508, the only difference is the last narrator, in 11508 it was Hashim, and in 12499 it is Ismael, however we can see that both Hashim and Ismael said the same exact thing The prophet salla Allah alaihi wa sallam used to YATUF over all his wives in one night and with one bath only ., this does not make it truthful rather males it plausible, however if we take it as plausible then it should contradict with another chapter of hearsay hadith in which we learnt that the prophet never liked to speak to anyone after Salat Al Isha, i.e. he would have never done the rounds at night, while the two hadith by Ahmed # 11508 & # 12499 claim that the rounds were at night. 100% contradiction.
B) Source (Saudi Arabia ?????????????????????¢?? Ministry of Religion)
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Chain of narrators: Haywa Ibn Sharih -> Baqayh -> Shubah -> Hisham Ibn Yazid -> Anas Ibn Malik said:
The meaning of Al Matn (the content):: The prophet salla Allah alaihi wa sallam used to YATUF over all his wives in one night and with one bath only .
Ahmed says:
Identical hadith to both hadith # 11508 & # 12499, therefore the findings concluded regarding such two hadith must apply to this one, which: we learnt that the prophet never liked to speak to anyone after Salat Al Isha, i.e. he would have never done the rounds at night, while the two hadith by Ahmed # 11508 & # 12499 & # 12876 claim that the rounds were at night.100% contradiction.
C) Source (Saudi Arabia ?????????????????????¢?? Ministry of Religion)
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Chain of narrators: Affan -> Hammad -> Thabit -> Anas Ibn Malik said::
The meaning of Al Matn (the content):: The prophet salla Allah alaihi wa sallam used to TAFA over all his wives in one night all together.
The hadith ended by a note that: Perhaps Hammad said in one day and not one night
Ahmed says:
Obviously the hadith above gives us two possibilities to the time when the rounds were done, Affan was not sure what Hammad told him.
D) Source (Saudi Arabia ?????????????????????¢?? Ministry of Religion)
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Chain of narrators: Affan -> Hammad -> Abdul Rahman Ibn Abi Rafi -> Salmah -> Abi Rafi said:
The meaning of Al Matn (the content):: The prophet salla Allah alaihi wa sallam used to TAFA over all his wives in one day and he used to have a bath at each one. So the prophet was asked: Can you make it one bath?, the prophet replied: That is AZKA wa ATYAB wa ATHAR
Ahmed says:
Here you have it dear brothers and sisters, in the above hadith # 22742, Ahmad Ibn Hanbal contradicted everyone including Bukhari, Muslim and himself, clearly the hadith tells us that the prophet was bathing before every round and at each house of his wives ones, in fact the people even asked him to make it one bath, i.e. they do the rounds between the wives with one bath at the beginning (before the first wife, supposedly) then no baths in between the rounds, or it may mean not having a bath before the first round and none between the rounds but one bath after the last round, whichever way you want to take, it was a stupid and disgusting question by those who asked it. The prophet?????????????????????¢??s alleged reply on the other hand is very vague all he said in reply: هذا أزكى وأطيب وأطهر , i.e. That is better, more purifying and purer
So what is ?????????????????????¢??that is?????????????????????¢??????????????????????¦?????????????????????¢??? Is it to have a bath in between or not have a bath in between and just one bath?, he never said which,, the hadith only used the word HAZA, now it is for us to work out what HAZA meant to mean
Is it as Bukhari and Muslim and Ahmed told us that it meant one bath and not any bath in between the rounds?
Or Is it as Ahmed told us in his hadith # 22742 that the prophet indeed had a bath in every house of his wives and before any round?
Logically speaking we have to go for the second because that is where common sense wins, in fact according to the same hadith, it was alleged that the prophet understood such common sense by saying هذا أزكى وأطيب وأطهر , i.e. That is better, more purifying and purer exactly as it was alleged by the same hadith that he was doing, i.e. having a bath between the rounds.
This means, if we really believe in such crap that the prophet was doing the rounds with all his wives in one hour of a day or one hour of a night then we have to also believe that he did it according to the simplest of common sense, which is by having a bath in between, and surely according to the report of hadith Ahmed Ibn Hanbal # 22742, which should mean that Bukhari and Muslim hadith are not really Sahih as they are bloody telling us.
The above is more than enough to turn such man made books of hadith to shreds, but I will continue and cover the rest of all hadith reported about such allegation, hopefully we learn something about Allah and His religion
Salam
- Wed 29 Oct, 2008 5:46 pm
Post subject:
Good evening all
Let?????????????????????¢??s go through the last 3 hadith Ahmed Ibn hanbal published in regard to such matter of doing the rounds with one bath in between or not, 2 of the last last three hadith we will read confirm Ahmed hadith # 22742
3- Musanad Ahmed continues
A) Source (Saudi Arabia ?????????????????????¢?? Ministry of Religion)
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Chain of narrators: Abudul Rahman & Abu Kamil -> Hammad Ibn Salmah -> Abdul Rahman Ibn Abi Rafi -> His Aunty -> Abi Rafi said:
The meaning of Al Matn (the content):: The prophet salla Allah alaihi wa sallam used to TAFA over all his wives in one day and he used to have a bath at each one. So the prophet was asked: Can you make it one bath?, the prophet replied: That is AZKA wa ATHAR wa ATYAB
Ahmed says:
This is an identical hadith to hadith # 22742, the only difference is the last narrator, in 22742 it was Affan, but in this hadith # 22750 it is Abdul Rahman & Abu Kamil. All three people transferred the same that the prophet indeed used to take a bath in between the rounds at every wive?????????????????????¢??s house, and when he was asked to make it one bath he replied again that having bath in between is : هذا أزكى وأطهر وأطيب , i.e. That is better, more purifying and purer, certainly makes great sense
This also means that Ahmed Ibn Hanbal again contradicted Bukhari, Muslim and himself.
B) Source (Saudi Arabia ?????????????????????¢?? Ministry of Religion)
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Chain of narrators: Yazid -> Hammad Ibn Salmah -> Abdul Rahman -> His Aunty -> Abi Rafi said:
The meaning of Al Matn (the content):: The prophet salla Allah alaihi wa sallam used to TAFA over all his wives in one day and he used to have a bath at each one. So the prophet was asked: Can you make it one bath?, the prophet replied: That is ATHAR wa ATYAB
Ahmed says:
This is again another identical hadith to both haidth # 22742 & # 22750, the only difference is the last narrator, in 22742 it was Affan, and in hadith # 22750 it is Abdul Rahman & Abu Kamil. While in this hadith # 25934 it is Yazid, All four people transferred the same that the prophet indeed used to take a bath in between the rounds and every wive?????????????????????¢??s house, and when he was asked to make it one bath he replied again that having bath in between is : هذا وأطهر وأطيب , i.e. That is more purifying and purer, certainly makes great sense
See, Ahmed Ibn Hanbal contradicted Bukhari, Muslim and himself for the third time.
C) Source (Saudi Arabia ?????????????????????¢?? Ministry of Religion)
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Chain of narrators: Suffian -> Alzuhary-> Ubaidallah -> Aysha, Suffian said that he heard a long hadith from him but he can not remember any of it but a bit of its start:
The meaning of Al Matn (the content):: We entered before Aysha, and asked her: O mother of the believers, tell us about the disease that struck the messenger of Allah, she said: The prophet used to YADUR over his wives and when he got sick he took their permission to stay in the house of Aysha and they were coming to him YADURN,
At this time the prophet entered while leaning over two men, one of them was Abbas, so Ibn Abbas said: Haven?????????????????????¢??t she told you who was the other man?
He said: No
So Ibn Abbas said: He was Ali
Ahmed says:
The above hadith # 22974 is very strange, it starts by telling us that a bunch of men entered all of a sudden into the house of Aysha, while the Quran clearly warn the believers from asking any good from them face to face, rather from behind a shield, they even entered the house while the prophet clearly did not give permission to do so, another violation against the commands of Allah as stated in sura 33, you can also sense some bias on the alleged part that stated by Aysha when it was alleged that she said that the prophet chose to stay at her house when he was sick and instead of him YADUR over his wives, they came to him in turns in her house, the hadith failed to tell us, they came in turns to him to do what? Certainly to see him while he was sick, however the hadith language implies that they came to him not just to see him, rather to see him and to have their turn of sex, it is like all they care about is sex, even when his health was bad as alleged in such hadith
The hadith ending is really silly, one of the listeners asked about the second man on whom the prophet was leaning, and the answer came that he was Ali, i.e. during the prophet time Ali and Aysha were on good terms, do you know what happened after his death by just a few years? Well, Ali and Aysha fought each other in the Battle of Gamal, when 10,000 Muslims where slaughtered by other Muslims, sure the Muslims were united after the prophet death
Here you have it dear brothers and sisters, from 3 of the most respected Ulamaa of Islam, what did we learn you reckon from all those 16 hadith? Absolutely nothing, except how confused all these people were, they even failed to tell us what we do not even need to know, we do not need to know if the prophet was doing the rounds in an hour of a day or an hour of a night, yet when they tried to tell us so, they confused the hell out of us, and now some are telling us that he never did it without having a bath in between, while others are telling us that indeed he did have a bath in between the rounds and even praised such way of doing it: Haza Athar wa Azka wa Atyab
The Muslims really need to seek refuge in Allah
Salam
- Fri 12 Dec, 2008 7:51 am
Post subject:
Hello Ahmed,
Can you please show me the verse from the koran that guides muslims to only eat halal meat ?
Regards,
Kafir -H
- Wed 17 Dec, 2008 6:05 am
Post subject:
